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Cheers Guys!!!

Garry

I think working on the siblings is the route to go down. Sometimes this can help as there is often slight differences in the details recorded e.g fathers occupation, address etc. While following the direct line first can sometimes work fine, I like to try to follow the events for the whole family as I have examples of death certificates with the wrong names for the parents or wrong name for a first spouse. Sometimes the informant just doesn't know the facts. I also have marriage certificates where one of the parties gives the wrong name for a parent because the parent died when the child was very young.

I will have a look at the records and see what I can find on Monday. I will also check what was on the RCE.

Usually for RCE's for marriages in Scotland it will refer to a divorce, or it may just be to correct a clerical error. For RCE's on a birth it is normally for a change of name, declaration of parentage and other things affecting the birth entry, sometimes the addition of parents' subsequent marriage.
An RCE on a death record ( as in this case) can be for the correction of a clerical error when registering or the addition of details missed at the time of registering but usually ( especially for suspicious deaths, notifiable deaths and accidental deaths etc) the RCE will be the result of a precognition by either the coroner or from the results of an inquest. E.g. if on cause of death it says " unascertained pending laboratory studies" then the RCE will be the result of those studies. The RCE tells the registrar when they are preparing an extract for someone that the previously recorded details should be ammended to show the new corrected details.

Tom

Good Evening RootGatherer...

I think it could be possible,but i wouldn't know where to start Tracing!!

Up untill now i have been tracing a direct family line, But I'm going to start finding out Deaths and marrages for all the brothers and sisters of the familys in order to give myself some more hard evidence and back ground info for me to work with.

I have spent hours google Bashing William and Isabella and came up with a few possible leads, but nothing set in stone!!! I've even trawled over GenForum and Rootsnet to see if anyone has got any connections,but with no Joy!!

Good Morning Garry

William and Isabella are certainly hiding somewhere at census time!! Isabella is not obvious even on the 1841 or 1851 census. I am wondering if her birthplace is correct! I have even looked for her as Elizabeth as in Scotland sometimes Isabella and Elizabeth are interchangeable. There doesn't seem to be many McLarens in Sutherland.

Do you think that Annie's parents could have been first cousins? What names have you for Mary's parents? What addresses are given for George and Mary on their marriage certificate? Who were the witnesses?

I have Traced William through a direct line of McCallums, I will List them below.

Edward McCallum 1929-1992: My Grandfather. His Mum and dad were Joseph Moorhead 1877-1954 & Annie McCallum1892-1950. They were not married so My Grandad took his mums name on the Birth Cert!!(I think that there is a strange reason behind this!!) They both lived in Hamilton Joseph moorhead was a Hawker from Carlisle (Can i note that he also seems to be linked to Two Familys in Carlisle) Annie was from Hillhead in Kilmarnock.

I have traced the line from Annie McCallum as Joseph Moorhead and Annie were not married.

Annie McCallums mum and dad were George McCallum 1864 and Mary McCallum 1872. These were Two sets of McCallums that Married each other. According to their Marrage Cert William McCallum and Isabella McLaren were Georges Parents. On George's Birth cert it states that William and Isabella were Married in Stirling in May 1853. When i have searched the Census records i can only seem to find a William,Isabella,George and Annie on the 1871 Census and they are living in Denny.

George was born in Balfron in Stirling and so was his sister Annie.

The only lead I have for William and Isabella's Age and place of birth is the 1871 Census. Whitch states that William was 30 years old and was born in Kilfinan or Kilfman in Argyleshire. And for Isabella her age states that she was 40 and was born in Sutherlandshire.

I know that these must be the right parents of Geore McCallum as on the same Census it states that George was born in Balfron Stirlingshire and his age tallys up with his year of birth from his Birth Cert.

Do you think that someone could leagaly get married at the age of 12 back in 1853? If the 1871 Census is right then Isabella would be 22 years of age when she married William!!

This would also mean that he was only 15 years old when he had his first Child William born in 1856.

I think we might find the hidden clue when i get some credits and find Annie's Birth Cert or even a Marrage Cert for her.

Just a thought....What if William and Isabella were Travalers(Gypsies) This could explain why they are not on any Censuses?

Mmmm...The Plot thickens..LOL!!!

Sorry Garry, but this is pretty confusing, as we all agree! Could you just clarify exactly what you know for definate about William ( I assume he is an ancestor of yours?) The 1871 census transcription on sp should definately be one of your investments on payday I think.
Mary and William jnr are both of an age to go into service in 1871, pretty brutal at only 10 years old in Mary's case, but that's what happened.
But, as rootgatherer has already found out, they are proving very elusive to find.
William jnr appears back in 1881 so there should be an 1871 census for him. Even if this is the wrong family, he must have been somewhere.

Liz

This appears to be the alternative William's birth so right area. It is submitted though.



WILLIAM MC CALLUM Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
25 DEC 1826 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN MC CALLUM Family
Mother: MARY MILLER



Childen born to this couple. These are all submitted entries.


1. MARGARET MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 14 SEP 1829 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
2. WILLIAM MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 DEC 1826 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
3. NORMAN MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 APR 1825 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
4. HUGH MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 12 JUL 1842 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
5. JOHN MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 25 DEC 1833
6. JOHN MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 16 FEB 1834 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
7. JEAN MC CALLUM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 AUG 1831 Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland

Cheers Buddy!!!

I'll be topping up next week I know what you mean about getting carried away on Scotlands people.LOL!!

Garry

Sorry Garry - didn't mean to add further confusion!

Like you I just feel there is something not quite right about the census records! Did you look at the actual image for the 1871 census? I have only looked at it on ancestry and I am wondering if William's age has been mistranscribe. The birth records of the children are consistently giving a marriage year of 1853 for the parents so it seems highly unlikely that William's age is correct in 1871.

When you find William's death certificate (I understand you waiting until pay day - it is so easy to get carried away on Scotlandspeople), I hope it gives his occuption. I think that may help us sort out the census records a bit!

I have looked on Ancestry for William (Junior) and Mary, just in case they were staying with a relative but haven't as yet found them. I wonder if they died? Again that may have to wait until you get some more credits.

If you find anything more, come back to the thread (even if it is a couple of weeks) and keep us informed.

Good luck.

This might just throw a spanner in the works!!! Can anyone tell me the best way to try and find out if this one is the Real William or not. I have the 1871 Census for when he was living in Denny and it does say that he was born in Kilfman argyleshire, or at least i think it is Kilfinan. The year at the time of the 1871 Census states that he was 30 years old! If this is right then he would be born inthe year 1841.

I'm lost now!!

Thought I would look at census using a different birth year for William (since it is unlikely that he married at 12). This is all I could find and wondered if it was him or if his birthplace is inaccurate on the 1871 census.

Name: William McCallum
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Gender: Male
Where born: Argyll, Scotland

Civil parish: Kilfinan
County: Argyll
Address: Auchagoile
Parish Number: 518
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John McCallum 40
Mary McCallum 40
William McCallum 14
Margart McCallum 12
Jean McCallum 9
John McCallum 7
Archd McCallum 4

Their is still one thing that is still not quite right!!. In the 1871 Census William and Isabella are Lodging with another Family In Stirling Street in Denny, But it states that there are only Two Children Living with them George and Annie They would be 7 and 4 years old. If we have the right Family then there are Two Children missing from the Census William age 15 and Mary age 10.

Now looking at google maps Drymen,Killearn and Balfron are around roughly 8 miles apart from each other; this is the three areas where all the children were born. If this is the same family then William and Isabella came down to Denny for possibly only a year or two.

Why would they leave Two Children at the age of 10 and 15 behind? It seems that they must have moved down to Denny for a short time and then moved back to Balfron. (this is according to where the children were born)

This is starting to get exiteing....

Thank You Alvigal.
So do you think they are all from the same family? I do a gree that their is a large gap!! I'll need to wait till pay day to top up my credits for scotlands people, Then i can get Williams Death Cert...Thanks for the help guys!!!

Garry.

Possible deaths.


1 1873 MCCALLUM JOHN M 0 BALFRON /STIRLING 472/00 0005




1 1871 MCCALLUM DUNCAN M 0 DRYMEN /STIRLING 477/00 0008

These are the children I've found so far. The one's not on the census records may have died early.


1) MARY MC CALLUM Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
29 JAN 1861 Balfron, Stirling, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MC CALLUM Family
Mother: ISABELLA MC LAREN





2) GEORGE MC CALLUM Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
26 FEB 1864 Balfron, Stirling, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MC CALLUM Family
Mother: ISABELLA MC LAREN





3) ANNIE MC CALLUM Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
24 JUL 1867 Drymen, Stirling, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MC CALLUM Family
Mother: ISABELLA MACLAREN





4) WILLIAM MC CALLUM Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
04 NOV 1856 Killearn, Stirling, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MC CALLUM Family
Mother: ISABELLA MC LAREN



5) DUNCAN MCCALLUM Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
07 JUN 1871 Denny, Stirling, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MCCALLUM Family
Mother: ISABELLA MCLAREN



6) JOHN MCCALLUM Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
11 FEB 1873 Balfron, Stirling, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MCCALLUM Family
Mother: ISABELLA MCLAREN


There is a big gap between William and the next child. And there is no occupation for William snr on Isabella's death certificate.

Liz

Yes, this is proving rather tricky Garry.

I would like to prove either a connection to the two families on the census records or find them as one or separatey on other census. I just don't feel they are the same family. The other possibility is that Isabella may have been married before William. I suppose that William's age could be wrong on the census - I wondered if it should be 50 rather than 30? Do you have a death for him with his father's occupation? In fact do you have an occupation for William from anywhere other than a census record?

This is what I cannot understand Why are the Children not listed with them in 1871? And why is there only Two Children listed with them in Denny? If they were lodgers in the house in Denny does this mean that they could have only been staying there for a short time or could they have been living at the house Long Term?

Is it possible for children to be married at such a young age?

I don't know what it is with Drymen but there seems to be a lot of McCallum Familys living in that area!! Every time i do a search on Scotlands people there seems to be a lot of McCallums with the same first names and also nearly same dates of Birth give or take a few months. There is even McCallums with the same birth years and same firdt names.

Well done Aileen - it certainly looks as though they were married. Just William's age (if the census are correct!!) gives some concern as he would only have been 12???

I wonder where the other children were in 1871 - there is something not quite fitting here. Does anyone else agree?

Next question - did it give an occupation for William on Isabella's death certificate?

1892 MCLAREN ISABELLA MCCALLUM F 58 DRYMEN /STIRLING 477/00 0007

Isabella McLaren McCallum married to William McCallum died aged 58 15/02/1892 at ?Gartuess Road, Drymen...daughter of William (Horn Spoon Maker) and Betsy McLaren ms Stewart..... cert signed by George McCallum (son)