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Cherilyn
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30 Jul 2009 05:30 |
Possible death for William CRADDOCK in 1887 aged 51 in Little Bay NSW (reg 5134). This fits with mgnv's info of his year of birth as c1835.
Then Jane CRADDOCK in 1897 in Balmain North NSW (reg 7508), parents not stated.
Chn: 1. Agnes b. 1858 Paddington NSW, m. Nicholas MARQUAND 1879 Sydney NSW [as Craddick-Marguand) 2. Ada Jane b. 1862 Paddington NSW, d. 1863 Paddington NSW 3. Ada Jane b. 1865 Qld, m. Eli MOREMON 1887 Sydney NSW, d. 1954 Leichhardt NSW 4. Chas Hy b. 1866 Qld 5. Henrietta b. 1869 Paddington NSW, m. Robert Jno MILNE 1889 Brisbane Qld 6. Wm S b. 1871 Paddington NSW 7. Flora b. 1874 Sydney NSW, d. 1875 Sydney NSW 8. Arthur b. 1876 Sydney NSW, d. Sydney 1877 NSW 9. Florence Martina b. 1877 Sydney NSW, m. Alfred EDWARDS 1903 Paddington NSW, d. 1949 Marrickville NSW 10. Dora Rose b. 1881 Sydney NSW, m. George Augustus RUDD 1907 Sydney NSW [as Dolores], d. 1950 Petersham NSW [as Dora Rose RUDD]
Chn from 1865 onwards born reg as CRADDICK, though Arthur & Flora's deaths registered as CRADDOCK. Marriages of Ada, Agnes, Dora, Henrietta & Florence all as CRADDICK.
Wm or Jane's death cert would confirm above names/dates.
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Cherilyn
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30 Jul 2009 05:13 |
Hi again Gai
Yes it is definitely addictive and compulsive isn't it?! How amazing to have your grandfather's diary, it must be very powerful at times.
I think I've cracked the case about Ada's birth. Queensland was the clue.
There is a birth of Ada Jane CRADDICK in rural Queensland in 1865 (reg C1322), which also fits age at death more closely - this shows parents as William CRADDICK and Jane HARTLEY, so its a perfect match for this marriage:
Marriages Sep 1856 (>99%) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CRADDICK William Manchester 8d 136 HARTLEY Jane Manchester 8d 136
There is also a son, Charles Henry, born in Qld in 1866 (C1621, as CRADDICK).
Now my theory is that Wm & Jane did arrive in NSW, where they had a daughter Agnes in 1858 in Paddington (as CRADDOCK), then Ada Jane in 1862 also in Paddington as CRADDOCK. This Ada actually died in Paddington in 1863 (reg 2217)!
Then they went to Qld and had Ada and Charles, returning to NSW by 1869 when they had more children in Paddington/Sydney (born as CRADDICK).
So this makes your Ada the 2nd (surviving) daughter. But not born in the UK!
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Gai
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30 Jul 2009 02:13 |
Cherilyn, i don't have a copy of Eli and Ada's marriage certificate yet but plan to purchase it along with Ada's death certificate. I was hoping to try and find Eli's birth certificate but have been told that a large number of records were lost in the bombing of Bristol during the war. I have searched for this record but have had no luck yet.
Quinsgran, thanks for your search tip and plan to put it into practice.
mgnv, Thanks for all the info on the Craddicks, though this spelling whether it be Craddock or Craddick is very confusing. I will look up the ww1 information as well for John Timmins as I'm find that period very interesting. I'm not sure if you read my previous post but I have my granfather's diary which he wrote in everyday while overseas. He talks about bombs raining down and airships overhead and how may died on certain days. It's fascinating to read but sometimes I can't help but cry for all those poor men.
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mgnv
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29 Jul 2009 12:31 |
John Timmins h/o Louisa of 52, Starling St Lilyfold was b 25/8/1870 in Richmond NSW. Given his age, it's a surprise to find he has a WW1 service record at: http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/explore/defence/service-records/army-wwi.aspx
He enlisted 23/8/1915, arrived in England 7/6/1916. It doesn't seem he went to France, but served in England as a butcher & driver. He was eventually invalided home - "senillty" (i.e., over-age) and asthma - in 4/1918. A pension claim on behalf of (or made by) Maggie, his child, was denied.
The official WW1 history is online at: http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/
I can also follow the day to day operations of his unit at: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/war_diaries/first_world_war/
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Gai
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29 Jul 2009 10:53 |
Hi Cherilyn, thanks for the information about Ada Jane Moremon and I will follow it up as I find it very interesting. I will try and purchase her birth certificate because is she really was born in Australia that totally contradicts what has been passed on through the generations.
Ada's and Eli's daughter Beatrice wrote out some of the family history which states " Ada Jane Moremon born at Manchester England, 27th July 1865 and died Leichhardt Sydney Oct 2nd 1954 was the second eldest daughter of William and Jane Craddick who settled in Queensland."
So going on your information she was born here in Sydney. Maybe a copy of her death certificate might be helpful.
I know that the information Beatrice has supplied isn't 100% correct as she has her father (Eli) coming to Australia at the age of 15 but a friend in the UK has found him in the 1881 census at the age of 21. If the information is correct on his death certificate then I believe he arrived around 1884 making him 24 years of age.
I'm finding this all very interesting and I'm currently typing up my grandfathers WW1 diary as well but it's taking a backseat to the family tree at the moment. I'm hooked.
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mgnv
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29 Jul 2009 10:30 |
There's a # of Qs I can't answer, lacking an Ancestry sub.
Is Thomas a joiner? YES, AS WAS WM - AGNES WAS A MILINER Where are the 1851 pobs? SEE 1851 CENSUS ABOVE Why isn't Jane a relation - was this an oversight or a transcription problem? ELIZ IS DITTOED AS A DAUGHTER, LIKE AGNES - JANE IS DITTOED TOO, BUT WITH " Is Eliz a=4, or is this another transcription problem - possibly by the enumerator? IMAGE SAYS 4 YEARS Who is George Reas - was I correct in including him in the h/h? HE APPEARS TO BE A LODGER - IMAGE UNCLEAR How close physically are they in the census? MODERATELY - GUESS AT 1KM - 4 DOUBLE PAGES IN THE BOOK What are Robt + Thos's occups? BOTH JOINERS
Is Thos a bro of Robt - maybe their dad was William. [This is really a suggestion based on them both naming their eldest son William]
Lastly - Who was Wm's dad from m.cert, and what was the dad's occup?
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1841 Living:- Irwell Street Cheetham. Robert Craddock abt 1804 Scotland (Joiner) Grace Craddock abt 1813 Scotland William Craddock abt 1835 Lancashire. John Craddock abt 1837 Lancashire. Robt Craddock abt 1839 Lancashire.
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 579; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Manchester; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 4; Page: 1; Line: 12; GSU roll: 438731.
Living:- Broom Field, Cheetham Thos Craddock abt 1809 Scotland (Joiner) Elizabeth Craddock abt 1813 Lancashire.[sic] William Craddock abt 1835 Lancashire. Agnus Craddock abt 1837 Lancashire. Elizabeth Craddock abt 1840 Lancashire.
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 579; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Manchester; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 8; Page: 8; Line: 3; GSU roll: 438731.
[ho107/579/10= PARISH: Manchester (part), TOWNSHIP: Beswick, (3)(5)Blackley, Bradford, Broughton, Burnage, Cheetham, Chorlton-cum-Hardy HAMLET: Kersall
Births Mar 1840 (>99%) Craddick Elizabeth Chorlton 20 274
Deaths Sep 1842 (>99%) Craddock Elizabeth Manchester 20 463 or Deaths Sep 1844 (99%) Craddick Elizabeth Manchester 20 505
Births Mar 1850 (>99%) Craddick Jane Chorlton 20 220
Births Sep 1839 (>99%) Craddock Robert Manchester 20 496
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mgnv
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29 Jul 2009 10:26 |
This birth inclines me to the Manchester couple:
Births Dec 1856 (>99%) Craddick Thomas Chorlton 8c 526 [Hulme was in Chorlton Rego D - now under Manchester]
There are local Rego Office indices online at: http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1856 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference CRADDICK William HARTLEY Jane Manchester Cathedral (formerly Manchester Collegiate Church) Manchester CATH/111/301
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1856 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference CRADDICK Thomas Hulme Manchester HUL/75/7
I don't know the relevance, but Hulme was in the "spoiled" 1851 chunk: Hulme Sub-District Moss Side Township Hulme Township Military in Barracks http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/intro.htm
1851 Thomas Craddock abt 1809 Scotland head Hulme, Lancashire Joiner Elizabeth Craddock abt 1814 Songhomsel, Yorkshire wife Hulme, Lancashire William Craddock abt 1835 Hulme son Hulme, Lancashire Joiner Agnes Craddock abt 1838 Hulme, Lancashire daughter Hulme, Lancashire Milner Elizabeth Craddock abt 1847 Manchester, Lancashire daughter Hulme, Lancashire Jane Craddock abt 1850 Manchester, Lancashire, daughter Hulme, Lancashire George Reas abt 1815 Shifnal, Shropshire lodger? Hulme, Lancashire Traveller Laboure
ho107/221/341/? Civil parish=Hulme
[Songhomsel looks like an Ancestry stuff up] That Thos is a joiner reinforces my view that the baptism below is our Agnes.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Manchester/Manchester/cathedral/index.html
Baptism: 13 Aug 1837 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England Agnes Craddick - Daughter of Thomas Craddick & Elizabeth Abode: Manchr Occupation: Joiner Notes: [entry number repeated in register, 5191 missing] Baptised by: R. C. Clifton Register: Baptisms 1837, Page 649, Entry 5192 Source: FHL 1545611
In 1838 the borough of Manchester was formed and Hulme was incorporated into that borough, adding its inhabitants to the 150,000 already resident in Manchester.
In the 20 years after 1850, there were 8 church of England churches built in Hulme! In 1841 it had one church, St Georges, built 1827.
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Cherilyn
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29 Jul 2009 07:13 |
Found Eli and Ada's marriage in Sydney NSW in 1887 (reg 526). Do you have this certificate? She is shown as CRADDICK buther death has CRADDOCK.
There is a birth that fits in NSW, in 1862 in Paddington, Ada J CRADDOCK daughter of William & Jane (reg 3473); some siblings born as CRADDICK.
William (22) & Jane (19) CRADDICK arrived in NSW aboard 'John Bunyan' in 1857 as assisted immigrants. Baby Thomas died on the voyage. This looks like thier marriage in UK:
Marriages Sep 1856 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CRADDICK William Manchester 8d 136 HARTLEY Jane Manchester 8d 136
or could be this one:
Marriages Sep 1855 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Craddock William W. Ham 4a 1 Golding Jane W Ham 4a 1
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Battenburg
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29 Jul 2009 03:53 |
Gai. When you do searches for people too much information can throw up no results. Eg if you say a person is born in a certain place and the census does not give the correct spelling it comes up no match. I have found on some census the person has put the street name they were born in instead of town.
Put the persons name,age plus minus 2 and see what results come up.You will see any mistranscriptions that way
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Gai
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29 Jul 2009 02:15 |
Hi Catherine,
The reason I was looking for immigration info was the was my next step in regard to Eli.
I will definitely be trying for information on Eli's siblings and just haven't' got that far yet. I have been using the trial period for different sites to collate bits and pieces but I have limited funds so it is slow going. I think some of the searches I'm trying for are too specific because i don't seem to be progressing very far. You are an expert on these searches and I would love to know your secret as I would love to trace my great grandmother Ada Jane (Eli's wife) side of the family also.
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Catherine
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28 Jul 2009 10:18 |
Gai, I don't have worldwide ancestry so can't help on the immigration of Eli, sorry.
If the family I found is the correct one then you now know that Eli had the following siblings:- Mary Ann Moreman 1843 Thomas Moreman 1847 Joseph Moreman 1850 Charles A. Moreman 1856 Eli Moreman Louisa Moreman 1855 - possibly immigrated to Australia Sidney Moreman 1858 - went to Middlesbrough
I've had another look at the census records to see if I could find the family in 1851 to see if there are any more children, and here they are:- Name: Charles Moreman Age: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Mangotsfield County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Keynsham Sub-registration district: Bitton ED, institution, or vessel: 1b Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 28 Household Members: Name Age Charles Moreman 31 Ann Moreman 28 born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire Mary A Moreman 8 Eli Moreman 6 Thomas Moreman 4 Joseph Moreman 6 Mo
so there was another Eli but he died in 1859 Deaths Mar 1859 (92%) Moremon Eli Keyn_ham 5C 569
but looks as though there are no more children.
Are you looking for info on the other siblings or do you just need the immigration info?
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Gai
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28 Jul 2009 02:07 |
Thanks everyone I'm reading your replies and I'm blown away by your responses.
To Catherine and Cherilyn in particular the Eli Moremon records you have found who died in Ryde in 1928 is my great grandfather and I have a copy of his death certificate. One discrepancy i have found is that we thought he was only in NSW but is death certificate states he lived 43 years in NSW and 1 year in Qld.
I can't believe how quickly all this information you have managed to put together in a short time when i have been trying for months. I'm not sure if the Louisa Moremon who arrived on the Abyssinia is Eli sister but will definitely look into it.
I'm not sure about the Plymouth connection and whether we are related or not. I went on Facebook and sent a message to a number of people with the Moremon surname and one responded. He is from the Plymouth connection and his father sent me his brief family history as he is keen for his family tree to be completed and he was hoping me might be related. I suppose I'll have to wait and find the connection.
I have been looking at all the immigration records on the internet but just can't pinpoint how or where Eli came into the country, any ideas. He did do lay preaching for the Church of England but I don't know if they would have sponsored him to leave England for Australia.
Thanks again, Gai
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Cherilyn
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27 Jul 2009 06:55 |
There is a possible arrival in NSW of Louisa MOREMON, Eli's sister, aged 22 in 1887 aboard Abyssinia
Then a marriage as Louisa MOREMAN in Richmond in 1888 to John TIMMINS (reg 5420). They had at least 5 chn, mostly in Leichhardt NSW.
John Henry 1888-1952 Wm P 1890-1890 Elsie Gertrude E 1891-1970 Doris Louise 1898-1968 Maggie Emily Lucy 1902-1974 (HILLMAN)
Death for Louisa TIMMINS, daughter of Chas & Ann, in Ryde NSW in 1941 (reg 11599).
?!?!
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Cherilyn
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27 Jul 2009 06:00 |
Btw Catherine - this is the right Eli, he died in Ryde, NSW in 1928 son of Chas & Ann. His wife was Ada Jane nee CRADDOCK; she died in Leichhardt aged 89 in 1954.
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Cherilyn
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27 Jul 2009 05:57 |
is this the WWII enlistment in Australia of Sidney jnr?
MOREMON SIDNEY : Service Number - N270391 : Date of birth - 09 Aug 1891 : Place of birth - GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Place of enlistment - PADDINGTON NSW : Next of Kin - MOREMON BEATRICE
There is another enlistment under same name showing dob as 9 Aug 1894 in Frampton Crettrell, Gloucestershire. He was 38yrs 9 months at the time (1933), occupation painter, married and living at 30 Golden Grove St in Redfern with wife Mrs B R Moremon.
There is a marriage in Plymouth UK of Sidney MOREMON and Beatrice R GEORGE in 1911 (Sep qu, see FreeBMD). Then these births in Plymouth with mother's mn George: Alfred C 1912, Sidney R 1914, Daisy M 1914 (not a twin of Sidney), Beatrice L K 1916, Francis E 1919.
So then these must be their sons enlistments also in WWII:
MOREMON ALFRED CHARLES : Service Number - 72920 : Date of birth - 19 Dec 1911 : Place of birth - PLYMOUTH ENGLAND : Place of enlistment - SYDNEY : Next of Kin - MOREMON EMMA
Alfred married Emma Louisa CRACKNELL in Rozelle NSW in 1936 (reg 8206).
MOREMON SIDNEY RALPH : Service Number - NX176809 : Date of birth - 09 Dec 1913 : Place of birth - PLYMOUTH ENGLAND : Place of enlistment - CHOWDER BAY NSW : Next of Kin - MOREMON MARGARET
So Sidney born 1913 but not reg until 1914.
Sidney Ralph married Margaret Catherine KELLY in Mosman NSW in 1938 (reg 3217).
Daisy M MOREMON married Laurence P RYAN in 1933 in Sydney (reg 230).
Beatrice Louisa married John M LEIHN in 1935 in Drummoyne NSW (reg 7283).
Francis Edward married Winifred Grace ATKINS in Ashfield NSW in 1944 (reg 1111).
Beatrice and the children arrived in Sydney in 1927 but I can't see Sidney snr's arrival: MOREMON B R 1888 F 1927 London Australia Sydney MOREMON D M 1911 F 1927 London Australia Sydney MOREMON A C 1912 M 1927 London Australia Sydney MOREMON S R 1914 M 1927 London Australia Sydney MOREMON B L 1917 F 1927 London Australia Sydney MOREMON F 1920 M 1927 London Australia Sydney
Theer are deaths at Ryerson Index (www.ryerson.org) for Beatrice Rosa (1960 aged 74, dau of Wm & Laura), Alfred Chas (1974), Margaret Catherine (1985).
Also at Ryersons are deaths of Sidney Thomas (as Sidney Joseph) and Alfred Ernest, sons of Eli & Ada. You can request lookups of the death notices which may help with names of chn/spouses.
:-)
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Gai
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27 Jul 2009 01:26 |
Wow thank you everyone for your replies. Your generosity in helping me is unbelievable.
I'm just starting our family tree in the Uk side after collating a lot of information on our Australian end. My great grandfather Eli Moremon came to Australia in and around 1884 we believe but at this point I just can't figure out how he came or when he actually arrived. I have searched all the immigration records I can find but no luck so far. I will have to keep searching.
Thanks again, Gai
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Catherine
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24 Jul 2009 16:30 |
Same Eli as in 1881 census:-
1861 Name: Eli Moreman Age: 1 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Son Father's Name: Charles Mother's Name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Mangotsfield County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Registration district: Keynsham Sub-registration district: Oldland ED, institution, or vessel: 2g Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 71 Household Members: Name Age Charles Moreman 41 born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire (Coal Miner) Ann Moreman 38 born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire (Seller of ?) Mary Ann Moreman 18 (Shoemaker) Thomas Moreman 14 (Coal Miner) Joseph Moreman 11 Charles A Moreman 6 Eli Moreman 1
and in 1871 Name: Eli Moreman Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Son Father's Name: Charles Mother's Name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Mangotsfield Town: Soundwell County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Registration district: Keynsham Sub-registration district: Oldland ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 94 Household Members: Name Age Charles Moreman 52 - Coal Miner Ann Moreman 48 Charles Moreman 14 Eli Moreman 11 Louisa Moreman 6 Sidney Moreman 3
and the parents in 1881 Name: Charles Moremon Age: 63 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Anne Gender: Male Where born: Mangotsfield, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Mangotsfield County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address: Soundwell Lane Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Barm Seller (Brewer) Registration district: Keynsham Sub-registration district: Oldland ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Charles Moremon 63 Mary Anne Moremon 60
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Catherine
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24 Jul 2009 16:21 |
another marriage:- Marriages Jun 1882 (>99%) BRITTON Joshua Keynsham 5c 1079 Kendall Louisa Keynsham 5c 1079 LAURENCE Mary Hannah Keynsham 5c 1079 Lawrence Mary Hannah Keynsham 5c 1079 MOREMON Eli Keynsham 5c 1079 The district Keynsham spans the boundaries of the counties of Gloucestershire and Somerset
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Catherine
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24 Jul 2009 13:12 |
Service Records:- Name: Sidney Ewart Moremon Age: 20 Birth Year: abt 1895 Residence : 40 Queen St, South Bank Yorks Regiment Number: 37565 Document Year: 1915 Number of Images: 21
Age 20yrs. and 5mths Trade: Steelworker Not Married Next of Kin: Sydney Moremon , Father Medals: British War Medal and Victory Medal
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Catherine
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24 Jul 2009 12:32 |
1901 England Census about Sidney Moreman
Name: Sidney Moreman Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Jane A Gender: Male Where born: Southwell, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Eston Ecclesiastical parish: South Bank St John Town: North Eston County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: 36 Miles Street
Occupation: Steelrail Straightener
Registration district: Middlesbrough Sub-registration district: Ormesby ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 96 Household Members: Name Age Sidney Moreman 32 Jane A Moreman 35 born: Lofthouse, Yorkshire Charlotte A Moreman 7 - all children born South Bank Sidney Ewart Moreman 5 Dorothy Ann Moreman 3 Ethel Moreman 1 Teresa Moreman 7 months
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