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I have now received Eliza Jane's birth certificate and it shows her mother to be Emma Jane Webber (no father's name) and not Elizabeth as originally thought. Eliza was born on 3rd April 1887 at Bondleigh and on 1891 census return was living with her grandparents and aunt (Elizabeth) at Bondleigh.
Does anyone have access to Southampton passenger lists to check whether Emma Jane Webber and Eliza Jane Webber left the UK anytime between 1891 and 1901?
Also whether Emma Jane and Henry John Greenway (they married in 1900) left the UK at anytime?
Here's hoping .........................
Many thanks

Many apologies, I certainly didn't mean to waste anyone's time, everyone has been so helpful and friendly and I have so much appreciated all the assistance I have been given ........
I certainly didn't realise there were other options available when trying to ascertain information so I am very sorry that I've been a pest!!!!!
Kind regards and sincere apologies
Sue

Just for future ref, "restart" actually means "post a duplicate thread". The way to "restart" is to post a new message in the existing thread, so people don't think this is a brand new question and go duplicating the work that was already done, i.e. wasting time and effort.

I'm poking away at Arthur to no avail so far, except to find that you have one of the most mistranscribed/misspelled surnames in the realm. It's always worst when the error occurs within the first three letters, since Ancestry doesn't allow for wildcards there.

Dear Janey,
As you can see I've been investigating the Elizabeth and Eliza connection for some time but have hit a brick wall each time so I then have a rest for a while then restart ...

Ah. And not just a separate thread about the related Torkington:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1161820

-- a previous Webber thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1031046

in which the same dead-end investigation into Elizabeth Kingsland was done.

And another one about the couple:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1007904

leaving me rather offput, I'm afraid.

I shall check the Arthur Torkington thread.

Hi Janey,
Thanks for getting back to me ........
Eliza Jane Webber (my mother's aunt was always known within the family as Jinnie) she married Arthur Gordon Torkington at Haslemere, Surrey on 6th August 1913.
Eliza's age was given as 26, occupation left blank, residence given as Haslemere, father's name and occupation were blank!
Arthur Gordon Torkington's age was 20, occupation Stoker, Petty Officer, resident of Portsmouth. Father was named as William Edward Torkington and his occupation was Barrack Sergeant.
I have been trying to locate information on Arthur Gordon Torkington (details on 'Trying to Find : Torkington' site!!)
Eliza and Arthur had no children of their own but I remember they adopted a daughter, named Dorothy, who I think married a gentleman called Lynch.
As a child in the 1950/60s I visited 'Auntie Jinnie' but 'Uncle Arthur' had already died by then, I remember catching a bus from Woking to put flowers on his grave.
No much constructiver information just trivial remembrances really, just wish I'd listened more and asked questions!!!!!!
Kind regards
Sue

Who was Arthur Gordon Torkington?

I don't see a birth to match.

There's no Arthur Torkington in the vicinity of Bondleigh or Hasledon in 1901 or 1911.

Did he and Eliza Jane have no children? There are no Torkington-Webber births in the GRO index.

Do you have his age, occupation, father's name from the marriage certificate?

I'm just thinking Eliza Jane might have been wherever he was in 1911, and gone to her mother's place of residence to marry.

Yes, Peach was a herring, no doubt about that. ;) (Why she was living with Webber in Hasledon in 1911, who knows? They were likely related somehow, or has that been figured out?)


Blake, I'm not so sure.

This is her in 1901:


Name: Elizabeth D Stake
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Servant
Where born: Torrington, Devon, England
>> Civil parish: Haslemere


Torrington is about 12 miles from Bondleigh. People who moved away from home, especially to other counties, often generalized their place of birth. (A grx2 grfather of mine went from being born in Tamerton Foilott, which he was, to being born in East Stonehouse to being born in Devonport over the course of the censuses, first living in Cornwall and then living in London.)


In 1911 she is:

BLAKE ELIZABETH 1887 24 Crediton Devonshire

and she appears as a result for birthplace "Bondleigh", but not for birthplace "Torrington".


Oh, aargh. No, that's not the Elizabeth Blake from 1901. This one is living with Philip Blake in 1911. That Elizabeth Blake is the one in the marriage that Choccy posted.

Marriages Mar 1911
Blake Philip Okehampton 5b 577
Peach Elizabeth A Okehampton 5b 577


The "Elizabeth D Stake" in Haslemere in 1901 is really Elizabeth E Blake, by my reading, and she would be this one I think:

Births Jun 1885
Blake Elizabeth Ellen Torrington 5b 492

So she's out.


So that leaves us with the Peach who is living with Webber in Hasledon -- who is *not* the Peach who married Philip Blake, presumably:

PEACH S ELIZABETH 1891 20 Hambledon Surrey

There is no birth in Devon 1886-1892 to match that person. She is the only Peach living with Webber in Hambledon. The only Webber in the household is:

WEBBER ELIZABETH 1871 40 Hambledon Surrey

I can't identify that (S?) Elizabeth Peach in 1891 or 1901.


But stop the presses.

I had a gr-grmother named Eliza Jane. She was called "Jane".


1911:

WEBBER JANE F 1887 24 Hambledon Surrey

Occupation: servant.


Worth looking at?

Bertha was Elizabeth's cousin and she married John Bastow.
I am now inclined to think the 'Peach' trial may have been a wild goose chase as Elizabeth Ann Peach (born 1887) married in 1911 whereas Eliza Jane Webber (born 1887) married in 1913.
Many thanks for suggestion though ...........

Oh great, Choccy -- "interesting" names. With a Webber thrown in!

I think one thing we're looking at evidence of is that it was a veeeery little place to live. ;)

You've all been magnificent
Kindest regards
Sue

no idea what the connection may or may not be, but the names are of interest

Marriages Mar 1911 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bastow John W Okehampton 5b 577
*******************Blake Philip Okehampton 5b 577
*******************Peach Elizabeth A Okehampton 5b 577
Webber Bertha A Okehampton 5b 577


(I was actually looking for Webber, but came upon this)

Hi Susan

I would to, see what her B/C says then maybe what you have on here might or might not fit

Im off to me bed, Sweet Dreams

Dearest ladies,
Oh dear, oh dear, I'm now totally and utterly confused ........
I think I'd better now wait until Eliza Jane's birth certificate arrives perhaps that will clarify the situation (or confuse it even more)!!!!!!!!!
I shall then, no doubt, be back in touch ......... (I shall understand if you both ignore my messages ............
You have been wonderful and have given me so much advice and many helpful suggestions.
Once again very many thanks
take care and sleep well
Kindest regards
Sue

Could she be one and the same, and have been enumerated with both sets of grandparents in 1891?


Proof of life:
(there's something wrong with the transcription though)

Births Mar 1887
PEACH Elizabeth Ann Okehampton 5b 355

Oh, oops, boo there, Julie. Not "somebody else" -- I didn't see you first!

Over to you, and out of here for me. ;)

You'll have to forgive me for conking out here. I didn't sleep last night and I have just completely confused myself. !

It's about 6 pm where I'm at and I'm gonna go crash out in front of Corrie. Hopefully somebody else will clean up my muddle before I wake!

Janey

I was looking at that family same family on the 1901 but they are with Elizas Dad..& i couldn't see a marriage for them

Elizth Peach
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Father's Name: Simeon
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Bondleigh, Devon, England

Civil parish: Bondleigh
Ecclesiastical parish: Bondleigh St James
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Okehampton
Sub-registration district: Tawton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
John Bolt 76
Simeon Peach 41
Eliza Peach 46
Elizth Peach 14
Mark Peach 12
Florence Peach 10
Maud Peach 8
Bertha Peach 7
Mary Peach 2

Im thinking that if her Mum was in Haslemere on the 1901 and she married over that way in 1913....then shes what way too

Mother in 1911


WEBBER ELIZABETH 1871 40 Hambledon Surrey

(searched for born Bondleigh)


Okay, this is interesting.

Searched in 1911 for

Eliz*
in Hambledon
living with Eliz* Webber


PEACH S ELIZABETH 1891 20 Hambledon Surrey
JACKSON ELIZA 1862 49 Hambledon Surrey


I'd been looking at Ms Peach in 1891 earlier:


Name: Elizabeth A Peach
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Simion
Mother's Name: Elisa
Where born: Bondleigh, Devon, England

Civil parish: Sampford Courtenay

Simion Peach 31
Elisa Peach 36 - born Bondleigh
Laura Ellen Bolt 13
Elizabeth A Peach 4
Mark W G Peach 2
Edith F Peach 11/12


Why is she suddenly living with Elizabeth Webber in Hambledon in 1911?