Find Ancestors

Now just for anybody laughing up their sleeve about my crackpot theories. ;)

I'm waiting for an email from the other side of the planet showing an 80ish-yr-old man with his half-sisters in Ireland. Almost a year ago, I replied to a thread here by his wife, who was looking for info about her husband's father. I can't go into the details as they're personal to them ... but I decided there was no other explanation for the dashing young man in the red sports car, who operated the factory in southern England in the 1920s and became, er, good friends with the factory girl, but that he was the scion of a very prominent family, for whom the decade after WWI was strangely unmentioned in his bio in Burke's peerage.

And y'know what? He was.

Can't find Irish peers for everybody -- can't even find my own Irish peer, tales of which came down from that mysterious gr-grfather of mine! -- but it's stories like that one that make me unafraid to make an idiot of myself with a wild theory that ends up falling flat. ;) What's my pride, when somebody's ancestry is at stake?!

This one:

Births Dec 1871
WILSHIRE William Faringdon 2c 265


will be this one in 1891:

Name: William Wiltshire
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Stanford in The Vale, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Stanford in The Vale

Charles Bungay 26
Elizabeth Bungay 26
Albert Bungay 1
William Wiltshire 19


Next door are:

Charles Wiltshire 42
Ann Wiltshire 45
Alice Wiltshire 12
Emily Wiltshire 9
Frank Wiltshire 6
Florence Wiltshire 3


So in 1881 he's this one, in Stanford in The Vale:

Charles Wiltshire 32
Anne Wiltshire 34
Charles Bungey 16
Henry Bungey 14
> William Wiltshire 9
Selina M. Wiltshire 7
Alice Wiltshire 2


I've been looking at that one for sure.

Can't find a marriage for Charles Wiltshire and Ann(e) Bungay (edited, got that backwards at first).

Ann's previous husband was Thomas:

Marriages Dec 1863
BUNGAY Thomas Faringdon 2c 596 S
JORDAN Ann Faringdon 2c 596


edit again; duh:

Deaths Mar 1870
Bungy Thomas 24 Faringdon 2c 213

Marriages Sep 1871
Bungay Ann Faringdon 2c 487
Wilshire Charles Faringdon 2c 487

Florance J Richards is on the 1891 census. Looked for a Florance J. on FreeBMD.

Found this -

Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wiltshire Florence Jane Birmingham 6d 113

Can't seem to find her or Sarah on 1881 census, either alone or together.

Births Dec 1871
WILSHIRE William Faringdon 2c 265

As JC says, this would be a good place to start.......purchase this certificate and see who the mother or parents were.

I know that............. but thought I'd see just where he had got to for info. Afterall, he could have fathered her child but as you rightly said its speculation.

Anyway , it is goodnight from me this time, I was up at 5.45am on Saturday and I'm pretty tired now. Catch up with you later!

Brenda

Hold onto that Robert!

Remember I wasn't suggesting Sarah Wiltshire married him. ;)
(If he comes into it at all.)

I've got her.


Marriages Sep 1882
LINES Frederick Aston 6d 470
> Richards James Aston 6d 470
> WILTSHIRE Sarah Aston 6d 470
Young Mary Aston 6d 470


1891:

Name: Sarah Richards
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James D
Gender: Female
Where born: Sparsholt, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Kings Norton
Town: Balsall Heath
County/Island: Worcestershire

James D Richards 41
Sarah Richards 45
Florance J Richards 11
Lucy E Richards 7


That was certainly a late marriage.

Now if I could only find her in 1881 and see whether she has a son!!!

Hi JaneyCanuck,

Believe this is Robert Philips/ Philps/ Phelps in 1881?


1881 England Census
about Robert Philps
Name: Robert Philps
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambourne, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Ombersley
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address: Hamlet of Hadley Brick House Farm
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Farmer Of 40 Acres Employing 1 Man & 1 Boy

Registration district: Droitwich
Sub-registration district: Ombersley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Philps 30
Louisa Philps 39
Henry Philps 6
Eleanor Mary Philps 5
William Ball Philps 2
Fredrick Philps
John Butler 36
Lizzie Butler 12
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2935; Folio: 31; Page: 23; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341703.

I'm danged if I can track that Sarah Wiltshire forward. Not in 1881, no marriage, no death.

In 1881, Catherine Wiltshire is still in Sparsholt. There are also two older Wiltshires born in Sparsholt:

George 1829, in Charney Bassett
Mary 1819 married to John (not born in Sparsholt), in Pusey.

So there are definitely Wiltshires in Sparsholt, just not any we need.

There are even more of them in 1861, born and/or living in Sparsholt.

In 1861 in the Joseph Wiltshire household there is daughter Catherine but no Sarah, so my theory there might be wrong. Ah, she is there in 1851, daughter of Joseph, with brother Henry.


Yes, goodnight then, and to MB too in case I'm not invisible. ;)

Night, Patricia.........sleep well!

i really appreciate all you are doing but may i ask if it is ok for me to go to bed now as work at 8am today i will check this thread later and follow up with any further info you have or may need. thanks so much

1911 Census Household Transcript
Back to normal view
Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
RALPH, VINA HEAD WIDOW F 77 LABOUR FARM BERKS UFFINGTON
PRIOR, ELIJAH SON IN LAW MARRIED M 47 LABORER GENERAL BERKS STEVENTON
PRIOR, ELIZABETH DAUGHTER IN LAW MARRIED F 47 BERKS UFFINGTON
RALPH, ELIZABETH GRAND DAUGHTER SINGLE F 23 BERKS UFFINGTON
RALPH, ROSE GRAND DAUGHTER SINGLE F 23 BERKS UFFINGTON
PRIOR, ROSE GRAND DAUGHTER F 12 SCHOOL BERKS UFFINGTON
PRIOR, GEORGE GRAND SON M 8 BERKS UFFINGTON
>>>>>>>>>STALLARD, WILLIAM GRAND SON M 12 SCHOOL BERKS UFFINGTON
CURTIS, LILIAN NEICE SINGLE F 23 DOMESTIC SERVANT BERKS UFFINGTON

STALLARD WILLIAM (RG14PN6441 RG78PN316 RD116 SD2 ED11 SN62)
Address UFFINGTON NEAR FARINGDON BERKSHIRE County Berkshire
District Faringdon Subdistrict Faringdon
Enumeration District 11 Parish Uffington

My theory -- and you should know that wild theories are my forte, but they very often turn out to be real -- would be that Sarah Wiltshire who was a domestic servant in 1871 was William's mother.

The theory would go that his father was quite likely Robert Somebody, but not Wiltshire, and could be the Robert Phillips (I read it as Philps, so more checking back would be needed) in that household.

Sarah could have gone elsewhere to have the baby. Too bad William's age at marriage doesn't match his age in 1911. And could have subsequently married, and William could be in censuses under his stepfather's surname. His stepfather could be Robert Somebody, for that matter.

All just wild theories -- but all those scenarios have in fact happened, and not that uncommonly!

William -- looks that way! Big age gap between him and Edith, though.

William in 1911:

STALLARD WILLIAM M 1899 12 Faringdon Berkshire

there are 7 Stallards in Faringdon living with a William Stallard, but there are two other William Stallards in Faringdon, so you'd have to look at the image for him to be sure of who is with whom.

Or get that list and then search for William Stallard in Faringdon born 1899, living with each of those names, to get a confirm or deny. I'll leave that to you.

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

Vina had a daughter Anne mother of edith mary but when I originally saw this i began wondering how william age 2 fitted in-- an uncle I knew nothing about..?. I confirm moody blue has my fathers family and your Philips story is intriguing

Just for ruling out:

Births Mar 1871
WILTSHIRE William Wantage 2c 343

Deaths Mar 1871
WILTSHIRE William age: 0 Wantage 2c 235

Edith in 1901, from MB's 1911 info, for ref:

Name: Edith Mary Stallard
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Uffington, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Uffington
Town: Uffington
County/Island: Berkshire

Vina Ralph 66
Elizah Prior 36
Elizabeth Prior 37
Rose Prior 2
Sarah Ralph 13
Elizabeth Ralph 13
Edith Mary Stallard 20
William Stallard 2

Now here's interesting.

The household where that Sarah Wiltshire was working in 1871?

It had a son Robert of just the right age.

I somehow missed that when I checked the 1871 image:

Name: Robert Philips
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry R
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: Lambourn, Berkshire, England
Civil parish: Sparsholt


Now, that looks like the perfect situation for a romance / exploitation of a domestic worker.

My great-aunt was the result of just such a situation in 1890. We know the surname of the family where my gr-grmother was living because it was my gr-aunt's middle name. Don't know whether father or son was the "father" of my gr-aunt.

in 1881, searching for anyone born 1869-1873 in Sparsholt, we have:


Name: William Winchcomb
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Grandson
Where born: Sparsholt, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Sparsholt

James Winchcomb 66
Mary Winchcomb 56
Mary A. Winchcomb 15
John Winchcomb 13
William Winchcomb 10
Ellen Winchcomb 5


There doesn't seem to be any birth record for that William.
But in 1871 he's William A. Winchcomb.

1911 Census Household Transcript
Back to normal view
Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
WILTSHIRE, WILLIAM HEAD MARRIED M 38 COWMAN ON FARM SPARSHOLT BERKS
WILTSHIRE, EDITH MARY WIFE MARRIED 10 F 31 UPPINGTON BERKS
WILTSHIRE, FLORENCE DAUGHTER F 10 SCHOOL UPPINGTON BERKS
WILTSHIRE, EDWARD JOHN SON M 8 UPPINGTON BERKS
WILTSHIRE, FRANCIS THOMAS SON M 6 UPPINGTON BERKS
WILTSHIRE, BEATRESS ANN DAUGHTER F 3 DENCHWORTH OXON
WILTSHIRE, AMY LILIAN ELIZABETH DAUGHTER F 10 MONTHS KINGSTONE LISLE BERKS
CURTIS, VINA KIZIA VISITOR F 11 SCHOOL UPPINGTON BERKS

WILTSHIRE WILLIAM (RG14PN8214 RG78PN419 RD156 SD2 ED5 SN19)
Address OLD SHIFFORD BAMPTON OXON County Oxfordshire
District Witney Subdistrict Bampton
Enumeration District 5 Parish Shifford