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Just a detail. At the top of the thread you mention Christina's last place of residence as Oelerton...this may be Dirleton, a small town in East Lothian about ftfteen miles from Edinburgh.

While access to the US Census records is free on ancestry, I have been trying again to trace the Groserts.

I have now found Charlotte on the 1930:

Name: Charlotte Grasset

Gender: Female

Birth Year: abt 1920

Birthplace: New York

Race: White

Home in 1930:

Manhattan, New York, New York >>>> Dominican Convent of our lady of the Rosary.
View Map

Marital Status: Single

Relation to Head of House: Boarder

Father's Birthplace: Scotland

Mother's Birthplace: Scotland


I'm still struggling to find her brother Thomas Grosert (b. December 1925) on the 1930 or 1940. He is using the name Thomas Grosert Junior on enlistment to the army in 1943.

Hello Alviegal, yes i am still trying to figure them out.
I keep hoping one day I will discover what happened to Thomas Snr, and also his first wife Christina, but no luck yet.

I looked at that 1940 for Thomas Grosert b.1905, but the Two Thomas's I have were born in 1875 and 1924, so I am not sure who he is. However, him being in Pennsylvania does make me wonder if he is related.

This is Alexander in 1940:

Name: Alexander Groseth
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Gender: Male
Race:White
Birthplace: Scotland
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Home in 1940: Kingston, Luzerne, Pennsylvania
Street: Trucksville Gardens
Farm: No
Inferred Residence in 1935: Kingston, Luzerne, Pennsylvania
Residence in 1935: Same House
Citizenship: Naturalized
Sheet Number: 11A
Number of Household in Order of Visitation:215

Household Members:

Alexander Groseth 46

Valerie Groseth 43~ Wife, born Germany

Janet Groseth 18 ~Sister, born New York

So, half sister Janet who was "adopted" by the Dittrich family 1930, is now living with her brother who was also living with them in 1920.

I also found Thomas Jnr's grave on findagrave:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=76207861
It wasn't listed by a family member though.

Did we have this 1930 for Hattie?


1930 United States Federal Census about Hattie Grosert
Name: Hattie Grosert
[Hattie Gubert]
Gender: Female
Birth Year: abt 1881
Birthplace: England
Race: White
Home in 1930: Manhattan, New York, New York
View Map
Marital Status: Divorced
Immigration Year: 1902
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Occupation:

Education:

Military Service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace:

View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Hattie Grosert 49 housekeeper in a hotel


and 1940?


1940 United States Federal Census about Henrietta Grosert
Name: Henrietta Grosert
Respondent: Yes
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birthplace: England
Marital Status: Divorced
Relation to Head of House: Head
Home in 1940: New York, New York, New York
View Map
Street: York Avenue
Farm: No
Inferred Residence in 1935: New York, New York, New York
Residence in 1935: Same Place
Citizenship: Naturalized
Sheet Number: 9B
Number of Household in Order of Visitation: 219
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henrietta Grosert 60

Hi Gemma, good to hear you're still trying to figure Thomas' tangled life out. I do remember really enjoying this search. Here's young Thomas in 1940.


1940 United States Federal Census about Thomas Grosert
Name: Thomas Grosert
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Home in 1940: Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
View Map
Street: East Ohio Street
Inferred Residence in 1935: Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Residence in 1935: Same Place
Sheet Number: 1A
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Kearns 65
Matt Brambachg 49
William Brown 46
Joseph Barton 40
Joseph Barton 8
Thomas Grosert 35 labourer for a contractor.
Alfred Fahrenhold 32
Silvio Milans 38

Thank you Choccy, it seems she was with her siblings and parents.
Good to know that it matches Margee's info.

I will pm you my email address

(transcription is a bit of a mess, but also living with her are - )


Grosert (male) aged 50 born Scotland, 25 yrs in USA, naturalised in 1910 - Electrician
Grosert (female) aged 31 born Scotland, 13 yrs in USA
Grosert, Janette aged 3 born USA
Grosert, Thomas aged 10 (months or weeks - difficult to read) born USA



New York, State Census, 1925

Name: Charlotte Grosert
Birth Date: abt 1920
Birth Place: United States
Age: 05
Gender: Female
Residence Place: New York, New York
Colour or Race: White
Assembly District: 20
House Number: 131
Line Number: 15
Page Number: 53

Charlotte Grosert 05



If you PM me your e-mail address I can send the original if you want it.





(this family corresponds with the info posted by Margee on 26th May 2009 at 18.00 and the same address)

Hello,
I am still working on the Thomas Grosert puzzle!

Could someone with worldwide access on ancestry please look up the details of a Charlotte Grosert, born 1920 on the 1925 New york Census.

Charlotte is the daughter of Thomas and I am wondering who she is living with.

Thanks

Gemma

There is this one in New York. Just a guess though.


1920 United States Federal Census
about Jeanette Kelly
Name: Jeanette Kelly
Home in 1920: Bedford, Westchester, New York
Age: 25 years
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Inmate
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Sex: Female
Year of Immigration: 1901
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Image: 63

Jeanette Kelly 25

There is a Jeanette Kelly born in 1894 in Scotland (year of birth worked out from age at death.)
Her parents are Robert Kelly and Annie Gant/Gaunt.

No clues there, but thought i would mention it!

~ Scrap that....she died age 4 in Scotland!

Liz ~ Ah well, it was a good theory while it lasted!

Hmm now that 1930 census is a very interesting find!

I "googled" William F Dittrich and found someone had transcribed his married record; 30-5-1881 in Macomb, Michigan to a Florence W Jackson.

Now this is getting very weird. Here is the couple in 1920 who may have adopted Alexander. Look at the adopted daughter. Now Jeanette Kelly had a 4 year old daughter in 1926 called Janet. This surname is Grosert and her parents both came from Scotland. I always imagined Jeanette to be Irish just because of the surname but we know nothing about her. Why would this couple have adopted at least 2 of the Grosert children??




1930 United States Federal Census
about Janet Gravert
Name: Janet Gravert
Home in 1930: Towanda, Bradford, Pennsylvania
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1922
Birthplace: New York
Relation to Head-of-house: Adopted Daughter
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace:

View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William F Dittrich 67 b Pennsylvania
Florence Dittrich 66
Janet Gravert 8

Sorry Gemma, wouldn't that have been wonderful...very cloak and dagger!! This is how ancestry have that record. She was Spanish and joining her husband Victor at a Spanish restaurant. Date of departure was 8 Nov 1905.


New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Cristina Slusse
Name: Cristina Slusse
Arrival Date: 16 Nov 1905
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Age: 23
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Spanish
Ship Name: Majestic
Search Ship Database: View the Majestic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 6
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_642
Page Number: 96


I wish I knew where to look for more info. I suppose you could try and get the marriage certificate?


Liz

Now this could just be coinscidence, but look who is travelling on the same ship as Thomas in 1905 (see third post in this thread);

Name: Cristina HURRI
Date of departure: 8 November 1905
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA

Date of Birth: 1882 (calculated from age)
Age: 23
Marital Status: Single
Sex: Female
Occupation: Svt
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 6 of 14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ship: MAJESTIC
Official Number:
Master's name: B F Hayes
Steamship Line:
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 13952
Registered tonnage: 10147
Passengers on voyage: 431



Could henrietta/hattie be travelling under Christina's first name for some reason?

Gemma

It certainly is!

Ive checked Ancestry's passenger lists using the dates given on Henrietta's passport application, but cant find her or Thomas leaving England.
Of course, according to NY Times article, Hattie came over in 1902!

I have managed to find a map of Arlington National Cemetery where Thomas and Christina's son Alexander John was burried...His plot is actually not that far away from JFK's!

And to think, i thought this was going to be another dead end!

Gemma

That's the way I read it too, Gemma. Enough to make your hair curl, isn't it? Oh I wish I knew where to look to find out more.

Oh dear, this is all getting rather confusing!

So, Thomas brings Henrietta/Hattie to America in 1902, 4 years later he brings over his Wife Christina and his son Alexander.
Presumably, he is having an affair with Henrietta/Hattie the entire time.

Fast forward to 1913. In October Hattie gets hold of a gun to shoot Thomas, In November he marries her!

By 1919 Thomas is living with Jeanette Kelly. He has three children by her, then she dies under the surname Grosert in 1926.
She cant have been married to Thomas because he was still married to Henrietta/Hattie.

Oh and at the same time as all of this he still has time to get patents for Hair curling products!

I cant help but wonder what happened to Christina!

Liz~ That 1920 looks very likely. Especially since i could find no records at all of a Clement Defrech (or however her name was spelled...i dont have that in front of me at the moment.)

Gemma

Gives a whole new twist to "shotgun wedding". Did she hold a gun to his head and make him marry her?
Wish I could find her on Ellis Island. I've looked for Henrietta/ Hattie Harris/ Grosert. Nothing!

I agree, I'm totally confused by some of this. If Hattie is Henrietta, then they got married Nov 18 1913.....the newspaper article is dated Oct 31 1913.
It seems totally bizarre that Thomas would marry a woman just weeks after she wanted to shoot him!!!


Liz

How interesting, Liz. What a find! It's got to be them. He never married her?
Update: How could she file for divorce if they never married?
Another update: It says he brought her over from England 11 years ago, that would be 1902. But his wife Christina came over in 1906? Just gets more confusing!