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Could some kind person with worldwide ancestry access look up two people on the New York Passenger lists for me please.

They are; Thomas Grosert and Christina Grosert.

I dont know any more details about them (im actually trying to rule them out as being my missing Scottish relatives.) but FTM Hints suggested them as possible matches.

Ive Checked Findmypast pasenger lists and cant find them, but i no longer have access to worldwide ancestry.

Thanks,
Gemma

I am off to bed now, but will check back tomorrow...dont want anyone to think i am ignoring any help i may get!

Gemma

On the Ellis Island site Christina Grosert, 32 and son Alexandra, 11 arrived New York 1 Feb. 1906 aboard the Teutonic. Last residence was Delerton/Oelerton?. They were going to join husband Thomas Grosert, 315 W. 45 St., New York.

Also Thomas Grosert arrived New York, 11 July 1914 aboard the Cedric. He was 39, a hairdresser, citizen of UK, last permanent residence New York. Seems he had been visiting his mother Mrs. I. Muirhead, 10B Brandon St., Edinbro. Home address was 725 7th. Ave., New york.

Did he invent the perm?

Grosert & Unger's Hair Curling Composition

Thomas Grosert and Ernst Unger, both of New York City registered a patent for a hair waving/curling composition in 1913 (Patent #1,064,901). It was a Chemists description and not suitable for reproduction here.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

Name: Thomas Grossert
Arrival Date: 14 Dec 1905
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Age: 30 Years 6 Months
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Scottish (Scotish)
Ship Name: Majestic
Search Ship Database: View the Majestic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 2
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_649
Page Number: 160

Going to:- Friend James Jenkins Kane, 415 W 45 Street, New York. Occupation was Ladies Hairdresser

Wow!
Thank you Margaret and T In Middlesex!
I think my "long shot" could actually be the Thomas Grosert i am looking for!

I was born in 1875 in Edinburgh, the son of Adam Grosert and Isabella Muihread Grosert, nee Collins.
They divorces and she remarried to an Alexander Muirhead (yes, she became Isabella Muirhead Muirhead!)
The address on her death certificate.... 10b Brandon Street, Edinburgh!

I now know that the people i discounted on Find my past are actually them....she said she was English and he said he was Foreign...what was wrong with Scottish i wonder?

Can i be cheaky and ask for the 1920 US Census record from Ancestry as well please...im wondering if they had any more children?
Thanks again,
Gemma

Sorry, I don't have access to US censuses but there are people here who do.
By the way, i didn't make a typo on son Alexandra's name, that's how it was spelled.

Here are some census records for him. Both naturalized in 1917.


1920 United States Federal Census
about Thomas Grosert
Name: Thomas Grosert
[Thomas Grosett]
Home in 1920: Manhattan Assembly District 20, New York, New York
Age: 44 years
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Rent
Year of Immigration: 1905
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Image: 370
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Grosert 44 hairdresser (own store)
Edward Grosert 40 brother, single



1910 United States Federal Census
about Thomas Fromer
Name: Thomas Fromer
[Thomas Grosert]
Age in 1910: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Spouse's name: Hattie
Home in 1910: Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1905
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Fromer 37 worked in a hairdresser establishment
Hattie Fromer 36 b England, married 16? years
Alexander Fromer 16 b Scotland

The image on this one is terrible, very faded, don't know how anyone deciphered it.


???

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Thomas Grosert
Name: Thomas Grosert
City: Manhattan
County: New York
State: New York
Birth Date: 3 Jun 1875
Race: White
Roll: 1786970
DraftBoard: 167


Occupation: hairdresser. He has his nearest relative as a Charles Costello, a friend, of 14 W 47 St, NY City.
Address was 34 E 133 St NY City. He was medium height, medium build, blue eyes and black hair.



New York County Supreme Court Naturalization Petition Index, 1907-24
about Thomas Grosert
Name: Thomas Grosert
Address: 70 W 47 St
Date: 20 Feb 1917
Volume #: 251
Page #: 162


Liz

Could this be son Alexander?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander GROSERT
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1894
Death Date: Jan 1965
Social Security Number: 443-30-7284
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Oklahoma

Actual Death Residence: Florida

Wonder why wife's name became Hattie and not Christina?

These are all for son Alexander. This matches what MM found.


Florida Death Index, 1877-1998
about Alexander John Grosert
Name: Alexander John Grosert
Death Date: Jan 1965
County of Death: Pinellas
State of Death: Florida
Race: White
Gender: Male


U.S. Veterans Gravesites, ca.1775-2006
about Alexander J Grosert
Name: Alexander J Grosert
Service Info.: PVT AMBULANCE CO 22 7 SANITARY TRAIN MD USA
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1894
Death Date: 22 Jan 1965
Cemetery: Arlington National Cemetery
Cemetery Address: C/O Director Arlington, VA 22211
Buried At: Section 37 Site 4885




World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Alexander John Grosert
Name: Alexander John Grosert
County: Bradford
State: Pennsylvania
Birthplace: Scotland;Great Britain
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1894
Race: Caucasian (White)
Roll: 1852860
DraftBoard: 1
Single
Age: 23

Occupation: farm labourer

Nearest Relative: Miss Clement DesFench?, Sheshequin Pa ?

Height/Build: Medium/ slender

Color of Eyes/Hair: light blue/ light brown

Signature:





U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
about Alexander Grosert
Name: Alexander Grosert
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1894
Birth Place: Scotland, Europe
Residence: Luzerne, Pennsylvania
Roll: WW2_2240342

Place of res Trucksville, Luz Pa
Mailing address 15 S Franklin Street, Wilkes-Barre Pa
Tel 30959
Age 48
Person who will always know your address Mrs Alexander Grosert
Employers name & address Beauty Parlor (Brooks Building)
Place of employment or business 15 S Franklin Street, Wilkes-Barre Pa



I saw Alexander's birth certificate which reads Alexander John Muirhead Grosert, born April 12 1894 at 12.30 am at 27 Castle Street Cupar, Fife to Thomas Grosert, hairdresser and Christina MS Heggie who were married in July 1893 in Cupar.



Liz

Children of Isabella and Adam.

1. ISABELLA LUGTON GROSERT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 12 APR 1873 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
2. MARGARET MUIRHEAD GROSERT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 03 JUN 1870 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
3. CHARLOTTE LUGTON GROSERT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 31 MAR 1872 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland





1891 Scotland Census
about Thomas Grosset
Name: Thomas Grosset
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Alexander
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: Edinburgh, Canongate
Registration Number: 685/2
Registration district: St Andrew
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Mary
County: Midlothian
Address: 58 Broughton St
Occupation: Hair Dresser
ED: 100
Household schedule number: 35
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1891_344
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Muirhead 40
Isabella Muirhead 42
Isabella G Muirhead 17
Thomas Grosset 13
Lizzie Grosset 11
Retta Grosset 8
Alexander J Muirhead 2 M




1881 Scotland Census
about Adam Grosset
Name: Adam Grosset
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: E'burgh, E'burghshire
Registration Number: 672
Registration district: Uphall
Civil Parish: Uphall
County: West Lothian
Address: 129 Greendykes Rd
Occupation: Engine Fitter
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 75
Line: 25
Roll: cssct1881_274
Household Members:
Name Age
Adam Grosset 34
Isabella Grosset 30
Margret Grosset 11
Carlotte Grosset 9
Isabella Grosset 7
Thos Grosset 6
Elizh C Grosset 1
John Watson 24

Margaret ~ Thanks. I did wonder if that was an error on the part of whoever filled the paperwork in.
Yes, i believe that death record is Thomas's son, Alexander.

Liz ~ Thank you! They are certainly the correct family....the birth certificate of Alexander John proves that.
The one off thing is that 1920 Census....as far as i know he didnt have a brother, let alone a brother named Edward!

The children were;
Margaret Muirhead, 1870
Charlotte Lugton, 1872
Isabella Lugton, 1873
Thomas, 1875
Elizabeth Collins, 1880
Henrietta Collins, 1882
I have previously managed to trace all of the siblings apart from Thomas. They all remained in Scotland/England.

Gemma

So who's Miss Clement DesFench who Alexander listed as his nearest relative?

Margaret ~ I have no idea! Until this morning i had no idea that Thomas had even gone to America, only that i couldnt find a death for him in this country.
My great Great Grandmother was his sister (Charlotte Lugton) but she moved to London and we didnt know anything of her Scottish Ancestry until a few months ago!

Edward Grosert is also a complete Mystery. The only birth on Scots People is for an Edward Grossart born 1880 in Leith. His parents are David and Katherine though....not related to my family as far as i know.

Gemma

I notice that Ancestry has US Passport application for Marret Henrietta Grosert, spouse Thomas Grosert. I'm wondering if it should read Harriet Henrietta and could she possibly be Hattie, a second wife of Thomas. I don't have access so can't see the details.
Perhaps I'm clutching at straws because on the 1910 census it says Thomas & Hattie have been married 16 years.

Here it is Margaret.


U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925
about Marret Henrietta Grosert
Name: Henrietta Grosert
Name Prefix: Marret
Birth Date: 24 May 1882
Birth Place: Graford, England
Gender: Female
RESIDENCE: ??, New York
Passport Issue Date: 20 Aug 1921
Spouse Name: Thomas Grosert
Spouse Birth Place: Edinburgh, Scotland
Passport Includes a Photo: Y
Source: Passport Applications, January 2, 1906 - March 31, 1925 (M1490)



Well done, it certainly seems to be them. Hold on and I'll write down the detail for you.



Liz

She was born Oxford ?, England, 24 May 1882. Husband Thomas was born Edinburgh emigrated in Nov 1905 on board the White Star Line from Liverpool, resided 16 years in US, except for 2 short visits 1913 and 193?, between 1905 and 1921 in New York City, was naturalized Feb 20 1917. She had lived in New York City between 1905 and 1921 and lived at 37 East 61 Street and was a domestic servant.
She intended to leave the US to visit her father in England for a short period of about 3 months and was sailing on the Cedric on Sept 3 1921.

She was 39, 5'5", high forehead, dark brown eyes, straight nose, medium mouth, round chin, dark brown hair, medium complexion, round face with a scar on her forehead.

Florence Anderson of 623 Amst Ave? NY, who had known her for 15 years, vouched for her.

There was then an amendment to let her travel to all countries including Sweden and Denmark for the purpose of visiting relatives and travelling.
She intended to leave from NY on board the Re Alessandro on 20 Sept 1921.

Her passport was to be sent to c/o ? Russell, 37 East 61 Street NY.

There is also a photo of her on this application. What an abundance of information! How fantastic to get all that.

Oh dear, if you think she's Thomas' second wife, look what I found! This is going to take a while, the site won't let me cut & paste. (I'm a 2 finger typer)

Brooklyn New York Daily Eagle, Sunday, Aug. 1, 1926
Dead Woman Named As Divorce Corespondent

A dead woman was named as corespondent in a divorce suit filed in New York Supreme Court yesterday by Mrs. Henrietta Harris Grosert against Thomas Grosert, said to be a prosperous business man of 41 W. 46th. St.
Mrs. Grosert, in her complaint, alleges that from January 1919 to January of this year her husband lived with Jeanette Kelly in an apartment at 131 118th. St. and that the couple have three children, Charlotte 6, Janet 4 and Thomas 1 1/2. The Kelly woman, the complaint alleges died in the Harlem Hospital on Feb. 14 last.
The Groserts were married Nov. 18, 1913 and have no children.

What about this for her? She was a citizen of the US and was going to stay at Wellow? Rd, Ollerton which was mentioned in the Ellis Island answer at the start. This is getting very confusing.



UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Hennriet Grosert
Name: Hennriet Grosert
Birth Date: abt 1882
Age: 39
Port of Departure: Wellington, New Zealand
Arrival Date: 1 Sep 1921
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship Name: Olympic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Olympic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: New Zealand Shipping Company Ltd
Official Number: 114629


Liz