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I think getting the marriage cert is a good move, it will give you her fathers name and occupation, so help you to narrow her down and hopefully confirm the correct family.

Then once you have that, you can try and work out where Eleanor came from.

I would assume Nellie was most definately a nickname for her.

I will def be keeping an eye on this thread, hopefully you will get some new leads once you have the marriage cert. Fingers crossed for you :)

Janey

I am sure your Alcie Bilbrough you posted born 1884 is the correct one but I am going to wait for the marriage cert to confirm her age (due the cost) delivery should be the 26/11/10 then my next cert will be that one you have posted if the ages match up ( which I am sure they will) Just to see who her dad is LOL


Thanks again for your time in this

I canot express in words how gratefull I am

Thanks so much

Deb

I added a bit more to the post at the bottom of page 7.

I'd be quite confident that Nellie was a nickname for Eleanor -- or -- that her name was Nellie and she called herself Eleanor, as an upgrade. ;)

Thanks janey

I will have a closer look

Deb

I have tried to edit but it not happening

Eleanor's marriage certificate was Eleanor Cooley

She had 5 Children

On two of them she has Put Eleanor Nellie Cooley

that is the only time she has used the name Nellie

But my dad does remember people calling her Nellie

So perhaps a nickname or a short version of Eleanor

I dont know

But I think that is all the information I have on her and I am sure I have not left anything out

Thank you so much

deb

I had posted the Alice Bilbrough in Bethnal Green in 1901 before ... who I'm sure is our woman, since the age matches, and she and Richard married in Bethnal Green.

That's why I posted the Eleanor births in registered in Bethnal Green in Q2 and Q3 1901, as that would seem to be most likely for where Alice -- who was living in Bethnal Green in March 1901 -- would have had a child.


1891

Name: Alice Bilbrow
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Bilbrow
Mother's name: Alice Bilbrow
Where born: Lewisham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Greenwich

William Bilbrow 32 >> born in King Town, Ireland, general labourer
Alice Bilbrow 29 - born Deptford, gold wire spinner
Alice Bilbrow 5
Ada Bilbrow 2
Emma Chapman 14 - lodger; she's 74, and widowed


is my bet.

So she and the William B in 1901 wouldn't be siblings.


Name: Alice Bilbrough
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Mile End Old Town
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 506


Place of birth in censuses varies with place of residence. ;)

Can't find a marriage for William Bilb* and Alice, or birth of Ada.

Hi all

I need to clarify a few things after spending time in reading back which was said a couple of days ago. And I was not taking things in proberly which I do apologize for

Where to start Right

I was getting confused on the Richard William Cooley's

1st Richard Cooley born c1864 ( I thought was Eleanor's Dad it is a good chance it was not)

2nd Richard William Cooley born14/12/1885 Listed as Eleanors brother in the 1911 census ( could be her dad/stepdad/adoptive Dad)
His mother was Ellen Cooley formaly Ellen Roberts and his dad was Richard Cooley

Births I can rule out as per births cert's I have got

Nellie Frances Wander 20/03/1901 father George Wander Mother Rebecca Wander Nee Day

Ethel Ellen Cooley Born 03/12/1899 Father William Cooley Mother Charlotte Cooley Nee Bartlett

Death

Nellie Bradley formally Gutteridge Her birth was 22/06/1901 (the same as my Eleanor) but it was in Stapleford Notts and her son a Donald Bradley Registered the death in 1986 ( so no chance it is the same person)

This is all the info I have on the possible birth's and death's.

I have ordered the marriage certificate for Richard William Cooley and Alice Bilborough in 1909 And I will update when I recieve this. But I am clutching at straws hoping this will give me any clues

So once again I am so very gratefull for all your help on this

And I will update once I get this marriage Cert

Thanks so much

Deb

Your not joking Sib

I think I will still get the marriage cert as even though it does look like it is my Alice on the census which has been posted

I just wont to be 100 %

And it wont go to waste as they are in my tree anyway

Deb.

Edit

Her name was Eleanor Cooley she had 5 children But on 2 of their Birth Cert's she put her name down as Eleanor Nellie Cooley

On her marriage cert in 1925 to James Alexander King it was just Eleanor Cooley

Deb

If Alice was married before, she wouldnt be Alice Bilborough in the census as Bilborough would be her married name when marrying Richard W Cooley.

However if she was married before, it will give her maiden name on the marriage cert.

I am not convinced she was married before though.

I think it is probably a very complicated story to who Eleanor's parents really are lol.

Morning Dee

Dont you start lol

so where did Alice born C.1885 come from??

this family gets worse day by day

Looks like that is the family though

Deb

Looks like the Potts in 1891 with William;

1891 England Census about William Bilborough
Name: William Bilborough
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 9a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Potts 27
Elizabeth Potts 23
Elizabeth Potts 5
Harriet Potts 3
Adelaide Potts 2
William Bilborough 19
Harriet Bilborough 15


The Potts link;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Elizabeth Bilbrough
Name: Elizabeth Bilbrough
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: George William Potts
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 24 May 1885
Parish: St Thomas, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Edward Bilbrough >> Cabinet Maker
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Potts

1 witness was Alfred Bilbrough


1871 England Census about Edward Bilborough
Name: Edward Bilborough
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth Bilborough
Gender: Male
Where born: Shadwell, London, England
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Bilborough 26 >> chair maker
Elizabeth Bilborough 26
Edward Bilborough 4
>>>>>>>>>>Elizabeth Bilborough 3
>>>>>>Alfred Bilborough 1 Year, 6 Months

By 1881 Edward has died.............. so where did Alice born C.1885 come from??


Dee x

Morning Flick

I am not 100% if this is my Alice or not.

As in the past I have been obtaining certificates for who I thought was Eleanor's parents and her brothers (richard William) Birth certificate, so I dont know anything really about Alice Bilbrough.

By getting this marriage certificate I was hoping it would tell me if Alice had been marriage before she married Richard Cooley in 1909 or visa versa to try and find out a lead to see what side Eleanor may have come from,

Im cluthching at straws I now

But I am due a bit of luck with this surely :o)

Deb

The marriage cert will tell you the names of the couple....their ages, their addresses, and occupations, and their 'status'.

It will give the names and occupations of their fathers, and the names of the witnesses.

Is this Alice in 1901 census?

Name: Alice Bilbrough
[Alice Potts]
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George W Potts
Mother's name: Elizabeth Potts
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 359
Household Members: Name Age
George W Potts 37
Elizabeth Potts 32
Elizabeth Potts 15
Harriet Potts 13
Adelaide Potts 12
Margaret A Potts 10
Thomas G W Potts 8
Florence A Potts 6
Edward A Potts 3
Louise M Potts 3/12
William J Bilbrough 29
Alice Bilbrough 16

She is NOT the daughter of George Potts.....she is a BOARDER.Occ: Feather Curler

Wow

Thanks very much everbody for all your time with this

As it has been stated it is a strong possibility that Eleanor was not richards's sister she was either his step daughter or daughter.

I think i need to order Richard and Alice marriage cert to see if it will give me any clues

Thanks again

Deb

yep I agree, she was either probably Alices daughter, or was adopted by them both (officially or unofficially)

JC,

I looked through this again and I think you are right. Eleanor was probably Alice's child... I noted that on R W Cooley's WW1 records the other children have a tick next to their names but Eleanor's doesn't, I wonder if that is because;

A. She wasn't his daughter, but Alice's.

B. She wasn't registered and therefore they couldn't send a birth cert in to prove her DOB.

BUT her DOB was added, would a father remember this?? Very unlikely however a mother would!


Dee x

And of course, I had said:

"I wonder whether Eleanor wasn't actually his sister, but his daughter"

;)

I still think it more likely she was Alice's child before the marriage, as a woman was more likely to have a child with her when she married than a man was.

yep Flick, my feelings exactly, which was what made me decide to have a look at his army record and indeed it didn't mention she was his sister, it just listed her as if she was one of his children.

Which then led me to ask questions about Eleanor Cooley's marriage cert, which from that is quite obvious, she has named Richard William Cooley born 1886 as her father (her supposed brother in the 1911 census).

The only place she has been named as his sister is the 1911 census, but that doesnt really mean anything.

Can anyone study the 1911 image and see if it gives any clues.

I can see no earthly reason why a man would include his 'sister' on his Army records......he would have been asked to provide details of his NOK.(wife in this instance) and, by default, his children

I need to go to bed as i have work in 7 houus so please dont think that i am not responding and I do not expect Siobhan and janey to do the work whilst i am a sleep :)

I will be back tomorrow

And I thank you again for all your time and effort in this

take care

Deb X