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Birth of the youngest child of Edward Bilbrough Jr:

Births Sep 1898
Bilbrough Isabella Bethnal G. 1c 193

In 1901 he is a widower. Where is the death of his wife Isabella?

This person is slightly too young:

Deaths Sep 1899
Bilbrough Isabella 31 Whitechapel 1c 207

Births Jun 1866
Clubb Isabella Bethnal Green 1c 275
=33 in Q3 1899, but it must be her.

Again, no stone unturned, was wondering whether Isabella and Edward Bilbrough Jr were estranged, and Eleanor/Nellie maybe was actually Alice Bilbrough's (half) sister, Isabella's daughter. But it seems not.

Looking on London Baptisms, is this entry:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Alice Bilbrough
Name: Alice Bilbrough
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1879 (born May 24)
Baptism Date: 15 Jun 1879
Father's name: Edward Bilbrough
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bilbrough
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets

fathers occupation:- cabinet maker
address: 33 new Nichol st


Is this just a coincidence? Although she is 5 years older than your Alice Bilbrough!

the other childre?

George Bilbrough 9 Nov 1873
Edward Bilbrough,Elizabeth Bilbrough Bethnal Green St James the Great Tower Hamlets

George Bilbrough 22 Nov 1874
Edward Bilbrough,Elizabeth Bilbrough Bethnal Green St James the Great Tower Hamlets


Elizabeth Bilbrough 30 Jan 1876
Edward Bilbrough,Elizabeth Bilbrough Bethnal Green St James the Great Tower Hamlets


Harriet Bilbrough 30 Jan 1876
Edward Bilbrough,Elizabeth Bilbrough Bethnal Green St James the Great Tower Hamlets


James Bilbrough 20 May 1877
Edward Bilbrough,Elizabeth Bilbrough Bethnal Green St James the Great Tower Hamlets


Alice Bilbrough 15 Jun 1879
Edward Bilbrough,Elizabeth Bilbrough Bethnal Green St James the Great Tower Hamlets

Moody Blue

Thanks for your reply

again it is getting very confusing

I have ordered Alice Birth cert (born 1884) so I hope it will throw some light on who her father and mother was

Deb

Janey

I have just ordered Alice birth cert delivery should be 03/12/10

I will post those detail's when I get them

Edward and Isabella could be her parent's


Thanks again

Deb

Edit Thanks Janey x

Now ... Edward Blbrough Jr, eldest child of Edward and Elizabeth, in 1891 in Bethnal Green:

Edward Bilbrough 27 -- Toilet Table Maker (census notation "Cabt")
Isabella Bilbrough 24
Elizabeth Bilbrough 6
Edward Bilbrough 3

and in 1901 in Bethnal Green:

Edward Bilbrough 34 -- Duchess Table Maker (census notation could be "Cabt")
Elizabeth Bilbrough 16
Edward Bilbrough 13
James Bilbrough 9
Harriett Bilbrough 6
Alfred Bilbrough 4
Isabella Bilbrough 2


Is this Alice's father in fact?

Marriages Sep 1886
BILBROUGH Edward Bethnal Green 1c 433
Clubb Isabella Bethnal Green 1c 433

daughter, born before the marriage:

Births Jun 1885
Bilbrough Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 264

I've tracked Isabella Clubb a bit, she's with her parents Edward (labourer) and Susan in 1881, so she wasn't married before.

What I'm getting at is just to make sure that Alice's "official" name really was Bilbrough, in case there's any other name she might have registered a child's birth under. No stone unturned and all that. ;)

Your PM was much appreciated, I only hope we do eventually get to where you really want to go, what became of Eleanor.

Janey

Alice Birth Cert I will order but proberly will not recieve untill next Friday/Saturday so i will have to update then on that one

But again it is who's the father?

Thanks again

Deb

Yes, they moved down the street after marrying, apparently.

(edit -- oops, you edited -- my pleasure, Debbie, a puzzle is a good thing!)

I'd like to sort out who Alice was.

Her father was Edward. And in 1901 she was living with William Bilbrough aged 29, who will be this one:

Births Mar 1872
Bilbrough William James Bethnal Green 1c 328

The Edward Bilbrough marriage:

Marriages Dec 1868
Barford Susan Mile End 1c 1066
> Bilbrough Edward Mile End 1c 1066
CHAVANNES George Louis Mile End 1c 1066
> Downs Elizabeth Mile End 1c 1066

On page 7, Dee found Edward Blibrough having died before the 1881 census, and Elizabeth remarrying to George Potts in 1885. Except there's no death for Edward.


This is the household in 1871 (all others in household born Bethnal Green):

Edward Bilborough 26 >> Chair Maker, born Shadwell
Elizabeth Bilborough 26
Edward Bilborough 4
Elizabeth Bilborough 3
Alfred Bilborough 1 Year, 6 Months

Okay, right, this is his death:

Deaths Dec 1879
Bilborough Edward 35 Bethnal Green 1c 141

So how can Alice born 1884 be his daughter? as I think Dee asked back then.

I would get the birth certificate now:

Births Sep 1884
Bilbrough Alice Mile End 1c 506

This is the household in 1881 in Bethnal Green, as posted by Dee:

Elizth. Belborough 36
Edward Belborough 14
Elizabeth Belborough 13
Alfred Belborough 11
William Belborough 9
George Belborough 6
Harriet Belborough 5
James Belborough 3

and in 1891:

George Potts 27 - meat carrier
Elizabeth Potts 23 (Bilbrough)
Elizabeth Potts 5
Harriet Potts 3
Adelaide Potts 2
William Bilborough 19 (with Alice in the 1901) - boarder
Harriet Bilborough 15

No Alice.

It just doesn't add up.

That 1884 birth is the only one that can be our Alice Bilbrough, if that was her name. So I would get the birth certificate.

thanks Janey

It just gets more confusing


They was living at no 32 ALLAS ROAD BETHNAL GREEN in 1911

Deb

edit

Where they was living in 1911 is so not important but I dont know what else to say. I just wish I could get to the bottom of this :)


Edit again

Thanks so much Janey for all your time and effort you have put in to my request in this, every time I post you are always their to reply so thank you so so much

Deb

Just for info, the households at
47 ALLAS ROAD BETHNAL GREEN E
in 1911 were Beager and Holmes.

In 1901, Alice was on Henrietta St.

In 1911 at
46 ALLAS ROAD BETHNAL GREEN E
are
BEAN ALICE MAY 1894 17 Bethnal Green London
and her family, although there are two adults of each sex, and three children aged 12, 33 and Alice, 17.

So Alice Bean was a daughter of the household where Richard Cooley was apparently living.

Hi All

Got the marriage cert today (27/11/10) and still no clues regarding Eleanor Cooley

Richard William Cooley Aged 23 Bachelor who was a Newsagent of 46 Allas Road Bethnal Green Father Richard Cooley a Newsagent

Married

Alice Bilbrough Aged 24 Spinster no occupation of 47 Allas Road Bethnal Green Father Edward Bilbrough (decessed) a Cabnet Maker

Witness J Cooley (Who i think was James Richard Cooley the Brother)
and a Alice Bean (think that is her surname)

They married of 03/01/1909 at The church of Our Lady of the Assumption, in Cambridge Road Bethnal Green

I was hoping that this Cert would give me a clue but their is nothing on their which I feel can help me

Sorry its not much help..

Deb

Janey

As soon as I got the infomation today I did not think that it would be much help, if at all any, but I thought I would post, as I do dont want to keep any information back which I have got.

It looks like to me Maud Elsie Webster,and Thomas Webster moved out and Eleanor moved in which is totally no help.

But I thought post it anyway.

Deb

Those are old folks, some of them.

Henry Alfred Wade married Jane Briscoe in 1879 in West Ham.

Aha, Maud E Wade married Thomas Webster in 1922 in Poplar.
Daughter and son-in-law, and they moved out.

The only Thomas Dorman + Grace marriage I can find is 1861, Helston, Cornwall, Grace Richards. Dunno about that one. Could be - a Thomas Dorman born c1849 died in Stepney in 1928, age could be out.

No more help, just a little more info. ;)

Hi

This is the information I have managed to get today.

Looking at the names they do not ring any bells to me, but I am posting as all the info does help

This is the people living at 104 Fairfoot Road Bromley by bow in the year when Eleanor was living their and after re the Electoral Roll (not sure when she moved their but as you now as she was under 30 Eleanor whould not be included)

She was at that property 99.9999% spring 1925

Autumn 1924
Dorman, Grace
Dorman, Thomas
Wade, Henry Alfred
Wade, Jane
Webster, Maud Elsie
Webster, Thomas


Spring 1925
Dorman, Grace
Dorman, Thomas
Wade, Henry Alfred
Wade, Jane
Webster, Maud Elsie
Webster, Thomas


Autumn 1925
Dorman, Grace
Dorman, Thomas
Wade, Henry Alfred
Wade, Jane


1926
Dorman, Grace
Dorman, Thomas
Wade, Henry Alfred
Wade, Jane


Eleanor Married on the 03/10/1925 and these name's mean nothing to me but I thought I would post anyway.

Deb

Thanks Moody Blue and Janey for your time again

So much information to take in I dont know where to start

Im looking at the Shelsher one and seeing where the family are in 1911 with no Eleanor their

They was in Bromley My Eleanor lived in Bromley before she got married to James 'Alexander King in 1925 (pg 5 of Thread )

Dont now if that is a clue staring me in the face or what

Deb,

Edit 22/11/10

After speaking to Bromley Libary who was very helpfull I have found out that Fairfoot road is actually in Bromley by Bow London and not just Bromley which was put on Eleanor's marriage cert.

tried to Phone Tomer Hamlets Local History Libary Archives but guess what they are only open limited times due to being refurbished

So ive sent them a email asking if they have the 1925 Electoral roll their, just to see if I can see who she was living with prior to her marriage and do they offer a look up service for this as the days they are open will be difficult for me to get down their due to my work commiments

Thought I would just bring you up to date

Deb

I just want to stick this here because I keep looking at it.

-edit - see at bottom - leaving here to rule out

Births Dec 1901
BUBB Eleanor M Bethnal G 1c See D/41

Name: Eleanor M Bubb
Mother's Maiden Surname: Richards
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1941
Registration district: Bethnal G
Registration county: Greater London
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 73

(Registered 1941 but born 1901, so not breaking any privacy rules here.)

This is a registration of a birth that was not registered at the time of the birth -- or -- possibly that was registered as:

Births Dec 1901
RICHARDS Eleanor Sophia Bethnal G. 1c 179

There are no Richards-Bubb marriages before 1920, and there's no Richards-Bubb marriage that looks relevant. (Alice Richards married Albert Bubb 1932 Keighley, but there seems to be a 1925 birth to that marriage, so it seems unlikely to be related.)

Just a bit of an oddment to throw into the mix and leave for now.

- edit - that one solved (how do I miss these things??):

Marriages Mar 1901
BUBB Thomas Islington 1b 307
RICHARDS Annie Mary Islington 1b 307

1911

BUBB THOMAS 1871 40 Shoreditch London
BUBB ANNIE MARY 1880 31
BUBB IVY LOUISA 1905 6
BUBB ELEANOR 1902 9

They just didn't register her birth, I guess!

Debbie -- the marriage that MB posted isn't for Alice (mother of Eleanor, we think, and wife of Richard), it's for the *parents* of that Alice (and again, how did I miss that?). It is in an odd place, but not to be ruled out yet.

Once you get the Alice Bilbrough + Richard William Cooley 1909 marriage certificate we'll know Alice's father's name so we can be more sure about tracing her.

It seems like a tangent, but it could really help with knowing who Eleanor/Nellie was, and so with looking for her after her disappearance.

Thanks Moody Blue

But I am sure it is this one and this is the one which I have orderded


Marriages Mar 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

............BILBROUGH Alice Bethnal G. 1c 236
............COOLEY Richard William Bethnal G. 1c 236
PALSY Nathan Bethnal G. 1c 236
RYCHES Annie Bethnal G 1c 236

Thanks

Deb

The only marriage that I can find as a possibility for the parents of Alice Bilbrough born abt 1886 is this one:-

Marriages Jun 1886
BILBROUGH Mary Tadcaster 9c 1019
BILBROUGH William Tadcaster 9c 1019
Kilburn Alice Tadcaster 9c 1019 view
MARGINSON John Tadcaster 9c 1019

Thaks Sib and Janey

I check this Thread and other's one's ive posted everyday (other sides of my family) I have since I posted it (yes i have more Mystery's) lol

Honeslty you would not belive how important this is for my Dad Just to find out what happend to her

I cant imagine what it must be like not knowing where your mother went to


2 of his sister's died through Cancer when he was a young boy It has only been a year since I found out where they was burried .

They was in unmakerd shared graves with no headstone so my Dad had had Plaques made with their names and we all stood and cried

My Dads family has had so much pain I my only wish is to find out about his mother (my nan) just so he can lay it to rest.

So all you good people I cant express how much this means to me in trying to find my nan ( my dad's mum)

All the Best and Thank you so much

Deb

I definitely agree -- start with the marriage certificate. Otherwise you don't have anything to match up, for censuses and birth.

Assuming she told the truth on the marriage certificate. ;)

And that she knew who her father was -- with no William Bilbr* + Alice marriage, it's possible she was Alice Sr's child, with William or otherwise, and not registered as Bilbrough at birth ...

But since she married as Bilbrough, she would probably have named him as her father, whether or not he was.

Can't find William, Alice Sr or Ada Bilbrough in the 1901.