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Debbie, you keep saying it's getting more and more complicated, when in fact it's getting clearer and clearer!

We can now be pretty confident of who Alice Bilbrough was, something we didn't know anything about before -- she was the daughter of Elizabeth Downs/Downes Bilbrough and an as yet unknown father, having been born long after Elizabeth's husband died. We have some clues, and we're on the trail.

And we can be quite sure that Eleanor/Nellie was not a sister of Richard Cooley, and very extremely probably was the daughter of Alice Bilbrough born before Alice's marriage to Richard Cooley.

We are waaaay ahead of where you started out. It's taken a reasonable amount of effort to get there, but nothing fatal. ;)

I'm very hopeful that finding Alice in 1891 (which I'm fairly confident we'll do, it just takes time) will lead to finding her daughter's birth. Not betting on it, just very hopeful.

For me, it being Friday nearly 6 pm after another long week/day of work, I'm heading out soon, but don't imagine I'm giving up! Here, to cheer you up: the tale of my own Herculean search for just one of my great-grandparents, and what sheer pig-headedness can lead to eventually ... even if it does take 7 years ... !

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/monck/thread/976217

That should take you all weekend to get through. Note the date it starts out at -- and that the real heavy lifting had already been done by then.

Thanks Janey

For me it has seem to be complicated, as it is not straight forward,(man and wife get married have child LOL ) But as you said things are becoming clearer, it has just done my head in at times and I have lost the plot sometimes :)

I will take a look at your thread just to give me some reassurance that one day thing's will all fit into place.

Thanks again

Deb

Edit

Janey have a good night

Deb

Just trying to catch up on where we are up to on this thread. Think I will have to read through it a few times.

But like Janey has said, although it might still seem confusing you are piecing together information which in turn will hopefully reveal all.

and besides, wouldn't a family tree be a bit boring if it was all straight forward?

just a quick question, now I have read through and caught up.

Who is the informant of Alice's birth and is the address of the informant the same as the address of birth for Alice.

looks like Elizabeth Bilborough (nee Downs) has her brother with her also in 1881 - Samuel Downs born c1854 (I am assuming her brother anyway.

I also can't locate Alice or mother Elizabeth in 1891.

Might be worth ordering Elizabeth's death cert, seeing if the address she dies at is where she is living in 1891.

Hi Sib

Yes the Informant was living at 103 Globe Road Mile End


I take it this is the Death of Elizabeth

Deaths Jun 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bilbrough Elizabeth 52 Mile End 1c 279

It is a bit of a mystery on where they was in 1891 but the death cert might give a clue which I will order

Thanks Sib

Deb

Good idea for the death certificate. I have tried everything to find Elizabeth and Alice in 1891 (assuming they're together, which is just an assumption, although I'd earlier been looking for just Alice with no luck either).

Nobody said these things are easy ... or cheap. ;)

edit - we cross-posted -- yup, that's the death for Elizabeth I'd posted earlier, you've saved me going hunting for it!

was Elizabeth the mother the informant of the birth? or someone else?

Janey and Sib

Thank you both so much for all your help with this

I will order the cert and update when I get it

Thanks again


Deb

Sib

It says Elizabeth Bilbrough but marked with a Cross (for mother and informant)

Father Edward Bilbrough (green grocer) same address (but we know he was decessed by then LOL)

Deb

looks like it was the mother that was informant of the birth then but couldnt sign her own name. So in other words probably couldnt read/write. The reason I asked who the informant was, is because if it wasn't Elizabeth the mother, the informant might of got confused with some of the information.

did anyone find James Bilborough, the son with mother Elizabeth in 1881?

I can't find him in 1891 either.

Harriet is obviously with her older sister Elizabeth and husband George Potts.

103 Globe Road definately coincides with Green Grocer's anyway.

So the question is, who was living there in 1884.

Do electoral registers exist for 1884, does anyone know??? or perhaps have the address checked in a trade directory for that period.

Might be worth checking the address to see what name comes up, it will hopefully give clues to who Alice's father really is, since we know it can't be Edward Bilborough.

Just for info, son James (aged 3 in 1881, "James Belbrough" at Ancestry) married in 1894:

Marriages Dec 1894
Bilbrough James Bethnal G. 1c 361
Bouvier John James Bethnal G. 1c 361
Hebden Ellen Bethnal G. 1c 361
Tomlinson Margaret Elizabeth Bethnal G. 1c 361

Leavings us backing and forthing between Bethnal Green and Mile End, again.

I wonder what his address was when he married? ;)


1901

James Bilborough 23 - born Shoreditch - ?
Margaret Bilborough 24 (so he married Tomlinson)
James W Bilborough 2
Edward B Bilborough 6 Months

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Benet Stepney
Town: Tower Hamlets

found James baptism on ancestry and interestingly

Edward is now a Publican in 1877 and no longer a cabinet maker.

so by 1881 when he was deceased it looks like Elizabeth took over his occupation.

in 1877 they are at:

5 Incorns

Okay have James Bilbrough's marriage details, he defnately married Margaret Elizabeth Tomlinson

on 25th Dec 1894, Bethnal Green

his occupation is a carman and in 1894 his address is 77 White Street (I think the last bit is St anyway)

father Edward Bilbrough is listed as deceased, doesnt give occupation.

checked 77 White Street in 1891, but no James, Alice or mother Elizabeth.

Sib

I have tried to find out who lived at 109 Globe Street mile end in 1884, Through the Libary in Tower Hamlet's but the only have records untill 1901 so I need to get down to the London Metropolitan Archives, where those records are kept.

Can't say when I can get down there but I will as soon as I can. It is Just hard to get down there at the moment inbetween my part time job and my children who are still at school.

I wish I lived a bit closer so I could just pop down there quick :))

Deb

Hi Debbie,

Have you tried emailing the LMA, you might be lucky and they might look up the address for you in 1884. Is worth a go. I think I have had luck with them in the past, when I can provide specific details.

I live in Canada so is hard for me to access records for a lot of my ancestors, so often email records offices etc, some charge a small research fee, but some if they have the time will lookup something for you without charging any fees.

Hi Sib

Iv'e sent a email to LMA. Like you said it is worth a go. But I may have to wait a bit for a answer, as they have a high volume of request's and it could be at least 10 day's before I get a response.

But still worth a go mind you going by the web site they charge £40 p/h and the min charge is also £40 so I may have to find the time to go any look myself.

Elizabeth death cert is also ordered, should get that on the 13th Dec

I will update when I receive that

Thanks again

Deb