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thanks evie

that saves my pc from going out the window
ill order the marriage cert tom
seanxx

Viv - a gift is on the way from Sean via me. Gmail can leap tall hills!

Well it may mean we would be able to find gertrude on census to see if she had any sisters or brothers who may have had a child with the name lucy/lou that she took in maybe, and raised as hers?
Because try as I might I cant find any gertrude mace to fit the credentials for her from the 1911 census on any of the earlier ones.

We still have the delights of this marriage cert to come yet I believe

Marriages Sep 1907 (>99%)
ATKINSON Frank Auckland 10a 477
MACE Gertrude Auckland 10a 477

wonder what cock ups / fairy tales will be on that?

i didnt send off for the marriage cert for william and gertrude

do you think it will do any good to solving anything if you do ill send for it

gertrude may have another name a clue to our lou what you think

seanxx

I think this is the answer to the scratching out.


Births Jun 1884
> Boagey William Francis Hartlepool 10a 156
Garratt Beatrice Maud Hartlepool 10a 156
GUISELEY Ellen Hartlepool 10a 156
Hall Thomas Hartlepool 10a 156
Parkes Henry Albert Hartlepool 10a 156
> Temple Mary Ann Hartlepool 10a 156


There was a Temple registered just before William Francis Boagey, and someone copied the wrong thing.


1891 in Throston, Hartlepool district:

Edward Temple 31
> Catherine Temple 31
> Mary A Temple 7
Ada Temple 5
Joseph Temple 4
Annie Heal 23


So that's just a stupid mistake thrown in to make things even more annoying.

... Why didn't I just do that first ...

Yes, well, speaking of scribbling all over!

This birth cert is an odd one.


William Frances (Boagey), 21 April 1884, 2 Burdons Passage Hartlepool
father Hunter Boagey, occupation General Laborer
mother Margaret Esther Boagey formerly Bayes

In the column

Signature, description and residence of informant

we have this:

X The Mark of
Catherine [I can't read the next word but it could be Simple, or Temple ...]
-- scratched out
Mother
Clyde [I can't read the next word]
-- scratched out
2 Burdons Passage
Harglepool

(I don't think Esther is underlined - I think that's the cross on the "t" in Mother below.)


Now, Sean, look over on the far left side, outside the lines, with a big X through the whole thing:

You see this:

Eight G.K.
Nine G.K.


This is what is done when a correction is made to the information. It is given a number (I assume it is continued from the last time a mistake was made) and then initialed.

I have one of them. The blasted thing is that it always seems to happen when you are desperate to know the real facts - that's exactly what mine was.

It seems that
- "eight" refers to the correction to "The Mark of", where "Catherine [?]" is scratched out and Margaret Esther Boagey is written in
- "nine" refers to the correction to what seems to be the address under "The Mark of" and the name, where "Clyde [?]" is scratched out and "2 Burdens Passage" is written in.

Now, maybe someone else originally informed about the birth? Or maybe the registrar just copied the wrong thing onto the certificate.

The initials "G.K." are not the registrar's initials -- the registrar is P.L. Spence (or something close to that).


What a thing to happen!


Alright now ... in 1881 there is a Clyde Terrace in Hart, Durham. (Hart, not Hartlepool). There is also a Clyde Ter in Whitworth, Durham.

That's what it says on the scratched-out part of the certificate: Clyde Terrace. (You can see that now when you look.) -- by the way, look at the image you have rather than the original: you can enlarge it to see better.


There are 3 Catherines in 1881 living on a Clyde Terrace in Durham -- two in Pollards Land, one in Whitworth. Those are both in Auckland reg dist, not Hartlepool. Hart is in Hartlepool district.

In Hart, on Clyde Terrace, there are a Catharina Grotz and a Catharine Farrell and a Catharine Robinson, the last two being of ages to have chlidren in the 1880s.


Huh.

Well basically, all the info on the certificate is okay, it's just the identity of the informant that's messed up.

If it hadn't come from the horse's mouth, I suspect somebody in your family of perpetrating this too!

And I would believe you about the {argh!]Barnards as they are EVERYWHERE.
Now the other day whilst on the hunt in Northumberland for some of those douglass / carss family members, next door to them was a family of Cawleys.
I have not looked for any that far north as all "my"lot are in somerset and dorset.
So I have scribbled all over the printout of the census form with little arrows pointing to them.
I couldnt stop myself

My email address is on the way. I have dozens of 'em. ;)

Send all the certs you got, Sean!


So -- Hunter Boagey the general labourer who was married to Esther Bayes ... what became of him?

She says she's a widow when she married Atkinson. We may never know.

No I dont think Gertrude was a Nelson as otherwise on Charles birth cert it would say

mother
Gertrude Boagey
formerly Mace
Late Nelson.
So thats thrown that one out of the window I am afraid.

And the only way you can send us a copy of the francis william Boagey cert is if we give you our email address to send it to us .
Which of course would then let us know your email address.
But you are welcome to mine if you wish,
Im not scared of the Boagey man!!
Let me know and I will send you a private message with it.
I would love to be able to see it for myself and see what it says.
viv

forgot to say

the nelson bit really been bothering me so ive had a look on 1911 as far as i can with no credits and there is a
lillian gertrude nelson
frank nelson
charles nelson
lillian nelson gateshead ithink
seanxx
ps wonder if gertrude was a nelson and huband died ie carried name on
you never know with this family

sorry pc been down

occupation of hunter general labourer
cant read what clydes 2nd name is looks like wrsed
any way i could send you both a copy without giving my email address

BOAGEY, HUNTER S HEAD MARRIED M 52 PILOT HARTLEPOOL DURHAM
BOAGEY, ESTHER B WIFE MARRIED 21 F 42 HARTLEPOOL DURHAM
BOAGEY, MARY E DAUGHTER SINGLE F 19 HELPING AT HOME HARTLEPOOL DURHAM
BOAGEY, HUNTER SON M 13 SCHOOL HARTLEPOOL DURHAM
BOAGEY, DAVID A SON M 10 SCHOOL HARTLEPOOL DURHAM
BOAGEY, GEORGE SON M 7 HARTLEPOOL DURHAM

This one is the Pilot then,and alive and kicking in 1911.

If Hunter Boagey married to Esther Bayes was the sea pilot, he might have been lost at sea -- thus no death in the GRO.


Do we know the occupation of this one in 1911?

BOAGEY HUNTER S 1859 52 Hartlepool Durham
BOAGEY ESTHER B 1869 42 Hartlepool Durham


"Esther B" is more probably ESTHER BANKS ALLEN.

ESTHER BAYES who married Hunter Boagey would be the widow who married John Atkinson.

But there's only one birth.

Births Sep 1858
Boagey Hunter Stockton 10a 80

Hartlepool was in Stockton district until mid-1859.

edit - no, wait, got it:

Births Jun 1860
BOAGEY H[u_]nter Hartlepool 10a 97


So there were two Hunter Boageys, and so then these

Marriages Mar 1883
BAYES Esther Hartlepool 10a 152
BOAGEY Hunter Hartlepool 10a 152

Marriages Mar 1890
Allen Esther Banks Hartlepool 10a 143
Boagey Hunter Hartlepool 10a 143

probably are two different Hunters.

TWO Hunter Boageys in 1871.


Name: Hunter Boagey
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Grandson
Where born: Hartlepool, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Hartlepool
Town: Hartlepool
address: 2 York Place

> Henry Atkinson 64 - tailor
> Mary Atkinson 65
George H Atkinson 25
Mary E Boagey 15
Hunter Boagey 13


Name: Hunter Boagey
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Francis
Mother's Name: Mary A
Where born: Hartlepool, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Hartlepool
address: 24 Duke St.

Francis Boagey 54 - pilot
Mary A Boagey 50
Francis Boagey 27
Robert Boagey 24
Isabella Boagey 18
Joseph Boagey 16
Hunter Boagey 11
Richard Boagey 9


(They're two census pages apart.)


Maybe it *wasn't* bigamy??

Maybe two Hunter Boageys married two Esthers??

The address on WILLIAM FRANCIS BOAGEY's birth cert is probably BURDONS PASSAGE -- that's how Ancestry has transcribed it in the 1881, and I checked the image for someone living there and I'd say that's it.

In 1881, 2 BURDONS PASSAGE is occupied by Thomas Watt and household.

HUNTER BOAGEY's family (his parents and him and other children) are at 2 STOREYS PASSAGE. It's 10 census pages away from Burdons Passage.

Francis Boagey, Hunter's father, was a pilot in 1881, for info. Hunter was a labourer. (He's a sea pilot in 1891.)

Does WILLIAM FRANK BOAGEY's birth cert give Hunter's occupation?

(Aargh, Viv, would you believe Hunter is living next door to a Barnard ...)


Hmm. Something interesting in 1871 ...

Births Sep 1865
Boagey Margaret Hartlepool 10a 150


1871 in Hartlepool:

Robert Boagey 43
Jane Boagey 39
John Boagey 17
Sarah Boagey 15
James Boagey 13
Robert Boagey 11
William Boagey 9
Margaret Boagey 7
Jane H Boagey 2


Probably a red herring, but you never know.


1881:

Robert Boagy 53
Jane Boagy 49
John Boagy 26
Margaret Boagy 16
William Boagy 18
Jane H. Boagy 10
Thomas Boagy 8
Hodgson Boagy 6


There's an 1888 marriage in Hartlepool that is likely her.

yesyesyesyesyes. We are always right and we never lie.

Now ... given that she was MARGARET ESTHER, I wonder whether the MARY on the 1891 census should really have been MARG?

Checked the image and it does seem to say MARY, as compared to (John's) daughter MARGARET just below. But it could have been enumerator error.

But ... there ain't no MARGARET BAYES to match even remotely in the GRO.

And this is ESTHER BAYES who matches ESTHER ATKINSON in the 1901 perfectly.

Births Dec 1864
BAYES Esther Hartlepool 10a 140


So yes Sean -- no "formerly" for Esther on that birth certificate?

Where is the "Clyde"? Under her name?

Hello Sean
Doesnt it say for william francis mother
margaret esther boagey
formerly
??????????

what is her maiden name on it.

********************************************

So mace is the maiden name of gertrude for sure then.

And it certainly looks like bigamy for hunter and esther then on their remarriages.
TUT TUT I dont know,the things they got up to is nobodys business.