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Nice, Viv.

I have to go crash my Firefox so it will function again, and install the update while I'm at it I guess, so I'll be a while too ...

Yes I remember the child named after the first wife,it wouldnt have happened in my house!!
VERY odd thing to do,
But on the rest of it I am sorry but I still havent a clue what you want us to look at really.
sorry.
I am off out to the pub now,well it is saturday night.
Hopefully Evie may have got it sorted by the time I return too squiffy to be able to do anything except sleep.
viv

sorry ment gertrude think that was her middle name

i think gertrude was also married before in 1901 cences lucy mace also lots of charles nelsons

im thinking maybe nelson died

can you recall the atkinsons john and esther named one of there children after his dead wife

Sean ,you dont make sense
Who is martha married to charles nelson?
Her year of birth
where born
and what census do you want us to look at?
And who is gertrude/lucy mace?
born when and where.
We cant see the census you are on about unless you tell us which one.
viv

please please

will you do one thing for me and i promise i wont bother you untill the cert comes through

ive been looking at cences all day and the nelson thing still bothering me

i think martha was married to a charles nelson but dont think here name was gertrude i think it was lucy mace

please will you double check

sean ps there are also edward nelsons to fit age

just had a thought

please could you tell me if you know in 1904 to 1907 when someone got married what prof did they need to show to say who they were if any

could someone just walk into a reg office and say there names were smith and jones or did they need to show some prof such as birth cert

sean

hi all

sent for the cert another week of waiting .

i hope that there was a lucy ,lou

but if not its been very interesting to find out about the rest of the family and what they all got up to

I've strained my brain trying to follow this.

Any news on Lucy Lou yet?

I keep meaning to say -- Derek, thanks for the geography -- it has made it a little clearer!

Well ... I want to see the Atkinson + Mace marriage certificate ...

It really is looking like the best theory!

Its a lovely mess that is true,and I still know that I would not have sorted it out,or if I had it would have been some time of think and rethink.

Like last night lying in bed and suddenly wondered why the Atkinson marriage but a Boagey birth reg for the child,nearly got up and posted about it then but I resisted as it was 2.am.

So you dont think that we have the wrong birth ,?
we are sticking to the Boagey man then?

1911

INSTITUTION MACE ESTHER F 1840 71 Norwich Norfolk


Duh. 1901, anyway:


Name: Esther Mace
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James
Where born: Whitwell, Norfolk, England

Name: James Mace
Age: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Esther
Where born: Norwich

Civil Parish: Norwich

James Mace 72
Esther Mace 60
Albert Mace 18


1891:

Civil Parish: Heigham
Jas Mace 62
Esther Mace 50
Albert Mace 8


No daughter Gertrude. Nice Nelson theory, kaput.

We need the Atkinson + Mace marriage certificate. Sean!!

See what a mess that Boagey birth cert is, Viv? Easier to see what went wrong now that I've puzzled it out. ;)

I cant find that pair either.

I have now recieved the pictures in the post,thank you.

Marriages Jun 1882
Mace James Norwich 4b 264
NELSON Esther Norwich 4b 264

?

Can't find them in censuses.

Okay, you know how much this resembles my gr-grfather.

Billy Joe Smith who was born Billy Joe Brown
married Mary Doe 1883
- said his father Francis Smith, who never existed.
- Billy Joe Brown's father was Francis Brown
(Yes, the father's name actually was Francis ;) .)

That's why I don't find the permutations of names here too hard to swallow, if they are indeed what happened.

In my case, it was Billy Joe who changed his name, not his father.
Actually, in our case here it was too, since Charles was born Boagey, but it was really the father who changed the surname.

So Charles just changed both his surname and his father's surname when he married.

If that is indeed what happened ...

I wish I could remember how much of this we've already done ...


1911

ATKINSON GERTRUDE 1883 28 Sedgefield Durham
ATKINSON WILLIAM F 1884 27 Sedgefield Durham
ATKINSON CHARLES S 1909 2 Sedgefield Durham


There we have those ones.
Gertrude Mace + William Francis Atkinson + Charles Atkinson
(whose middle initial has undoubtedly been mistranscribed).


-- and -- repeating that search for Gertrude with birthplace as Norfolk -- *yes* -- she was born in Norfolk.

Charles edward Atkinson aged 30 married winnie wells aged 21 on 18 march 1939

Charles father was Francis Atkinson,,miner,,
deceased

Alrighty now. The theory is that *our* Charles Edward Whatever actually got a fake birth certificate?

How would he have known what / whose certificate to get?


This is interesting:

Marriages Sep 1910
> Atkinson Francis B Sculcoates 9d 303
Graham Ethel Sculcoates 9d 303
Harrold Frederick J Sculcoates 9d 303

A bride missing. Of course. There is a Harrold-Graham birth in Sculcoates 1913. Frank Atkinson married the missing bride. Aargh.

Well well well. How interesting. The missing bride was originally transcribed as being on page 3_3. It has been corrected to 363. But I looked at the image, and I read it as 303.

Marriages Sep 1910
>> Brine Gertie Sculcoates 9d 363
Cooke Olive M Sculcoates 9d 363
Howarth Frank Sculcoates 9d 363
James Elizabeth J Sculcoates 9d 363
Noble Charles W Sculcoates 9d 363

She's actually also in the index as Gertrude Brine, same details, and that has not been transcribed. I've submitted a correction.

Frank Atkinson and Gertrude? Interesting.

Can't identify that Francis in 1911. Or CHARLES EDWARD ATKINSON 1908.


The birth cert for CHARLES EDWARD NELSON BOAGEY has the father as WILLIAM FRANCIS BOAGEY - Coal Miner. That WF Boagey *is* the son of Hunter Boagey and Esther Bayes. Esther Bayes Boagey *did* marry John Atkinson ...

William Francis Boagey and Gertrude Boagey formerly Mace *were* the parents of Charles Edward Nelson Boagey - born in Durham dist September 1908.

Gertrude Mace *did* marry Frank Atkinson - in Auckland dist mid 1907. (Or did she? The other groom is Robert Kirton.)

I don't have the Frank Atkinson + Gertrude Mace (?) marriage certificate.
I want it, Sean! You don't have it yet?



Charles Atkinson married in 1939? Charles was *how* old when he married??

When and where did Charles and Gertrude have children?


william francis Boagey became
Frank Atkinson and married under that name to gertrude but
then they registered charles as a Boagey
who then went on to marry as an Atkinson.
why reg Charles as a Boagey if they had taken the name Atkinson and married under it?
Why not reg him as Atkinson?

Hmm. Yes.

Okay ... before I say

what?

WHAT????

... Viv - did you not get my email? It hasn't bounced. I sent it to the address Sean gave me. PM me your address so I can double check. And check your spam box maybe - it would have been largish without much text so it might have been identified as spam. Or I can send three separate messages with the three images.