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Two possible births for John Oliphant but this one is Dalmeny:-

JOHN OLIPHANT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 15 JUL 1739 Dalmeny, West Lothian, Scotland
Father: GEORGE OLIPHANT
Mother: MARGARET JOHNSTOUN

this is the other one for the record:-
JOHN OLIPHANT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 NOV 1748 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
Father: DAVID OLIPHANT
Mother: HELEN PATERSON

Five possible for Margaret Bartholomew.

Catherine and rootgatherer, You have found so much information today, unfortunatley have been out most of the day so not yet been able to look for the two Mcgregor girls but getting right onto it now, Thank you so much for all you hard work and going back so far, looks like a possible birth for John oliphant in Dalmeny, I will let you know about the girls.

regards jean

Sorry still no luck with the Mcgregor girls, met a few dead ends on Scotlands People, looked on the 1871 census only Janet i thought might fit aged 15 working as a domestic servant , but Elizabeth not with her.

Will try something new tomorrow, although what i don't know.

jean

This is just to say a big Thank you to Catherine and Rootgatherer for all your hard work on my behalf , I know i would never have got this far without you. You have enabled me to add lots more relatives to my Dad's side of my tree.But I am still on the trail of those McGregor girls , they must be there somewhere.

regards jean

Good evening Jean and Catherine

Jean, I know that this is about your family but I am addressing this to Catherine too because she has done so much of the work and I am sure she will be interested in the outcome or lack of it from the poor relief records. I am just back from the Mitchell having spent my early day from work there.

Grandma Ann Mitchell ms Oliphant did indeed claim relief 3 days before she died. I am afraid the claim didn't give much info - in fact it only refered to her as widow of John Mitchell not even by her name!! It was her though as address is correct and the parents names are those that we had already found. The only child is daughter Agnes, aged 48 and married to Duncan McGregor, Hammerman. Again her place of birth is confirmed as Dollar.

Agnes Mitchell or Stewart or McGregor also made a claim but she must have dropped it as there are absolutely no details on the claim at all.

Margaret Stewart or Moore widow of Philip Cox made a claim on 21/4/11. Most of what is in the claim we already knew but it did show that she was not averse to telling fibs about her age when getting married and about her children when trying to get come cash from the poor relief. It tells us that her late husband, Philip Cox was born in Dundee, son of Philip Cox a handloom weaver and Susan [looks like] maiden surname Aroy? When the inspector went to re-visit her at the house, he finds her daughter Leah there. She refuses to speak to him and"went out of the house and locked herself in the WC". Her first husband, Henry Moore had previously claimed relief (I haven't found that claim yet)

The claim gives the names of the streets she stayed in when her children were born. Perhaps the most interesting "fresh" info is that her daughter Mary, aged 40 had 9 children (2 working) and was married to Alfred Jones, a Cabinet Maker in Liverpool. Daughter Margaret, aged 38 had 4 children and was married to Edward Good and living in Garriochmill Road. Daughter Ann, aged 30 had 1 child and was married to Alexander [looks like] Stannard, had Stewart but this was crossed out, a Dock Labourer residing at 5 Kerr Street. Daughter Janet aged 30 [could be 20, difficult to read] no family and married to Charles Nuckery, labourer in America. The inspector later lists her sons, Duncan, James, Alexander and Robert with the question where are they?

An earlier application Margaret made when she was the widow of Henry Moore, gives her place of birth as New City Road, Cowcaddens (*Catherine another co-incidence here, I work just off New City Road!!) New information in this is that Henry was a Craneman and born in Garvoel, Ireland son of John Moore, awatchmaker and Mary Mullen both dead. At the time of this application daughter Mary was married to Alfred Jones and living in Partick (so she must have married here before they moved to Liverpool)

Anyway girls that is a rough idea of what I found on the poor relief.

Jean. I will type up the full details over the weekend and send them to you as a PM.

Rootgatherer, Thank you so much for all the information and taking the time to do this for me. I am still in the process of searching for my Grandfathers sisters, but you have found out most of the info for me , the only sisters i found on the 1901 census was Leah and Janet b.1882,but i have Janet married to Alan Stevenson in Kelvin in 1901.I will have to check on that one.All the brothers are accounted for except for Alexander b.1880 can't seem to find a marraige or death, but I will keep searching. With al the new information on my grandfathers sisters I will now be searching for their children. No don't worry I won't be asking you or Catherine to help youv'e both done enough already !!!!!!

Cheers to you both

Jean

Oh my goodness, well done rootgatherer!
I find it amazing the amount of information you can get from Scottish records right down to "hiding in the loo". If you know where to look you can find out so much more than on anything recorded in England. Even the bmd are so much more detailed.
If some of the family moved down to Liverpool, maybe Alexander did too, or maybe he went over to America???
It will probably take you a while to put all this new info into place and to see where there are any holes. Let me know if you need anything else, it's been a pleasure working on this one!
Best Wishes
Catherine

Did you find a death for Janet? I wonder if she married twice and emigrated? You could look on the Ellis Island site. We now know that Alexander was alive in 1911 - maybe he emigrate to America?

Anyway here is Mary with her family in 1901

Name: Alfred F Jones
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration Number: 622/1
Registration district: Maryhill
Civil Parish: Maryhill
Town: Glasgow
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 26 Vernon St
Occupation: Cabinet Maker
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 8
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1901_240
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred F Jones 35
Mary Jones 31
Mary M Jones 10
Lucy W Jones 8
Frances A Jones 6
Alfred H Jones 2
Florence Jones 4

At least the English 1911 census is available now for the rest of the children!!

I will PM the full details of the poor relief asap.

I have to say I have enjoyed this research - makes a change from doing my lot and I will go back to them now with a fresh pair of eyes!!

Oh gosh!! Her'es a Good and Moore living in the same house in 1901
Name: Annie Moore
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relationship: Sin-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 622/1
Registration district: Maryhill
Civil Parish: Maryhill
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 108 Cran St
Occupation: Piano Warchouse Assistant
ED: 19
Household schedule number: 188
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1901_240
Household Members: Name Age
George E Good 28
Margaret Good 28
Margaret Good 5
Edward Good 4
Ada Good 2
Annie Moore 24

and would you believe it's Henry's tow daughters!! Annie before she married and her sister Margaret!!

Oh, well done! So all accounted for, except Alexander, up to 1901!
If one of his sisters husbands was working in America, I do think that there's a chance he went with him.

Well Rootgatherer you have found some of the children for me, thank you, well done wish I was as quick of the mark as you. I am so glad you both enjoyed this search , I amquite new to this and it takes me a while to digest everything but i am enjoying this so much. I am now going to Ancestry to see if I can find the rest of the Good children, never thought I would be looking in England for my ancestores. I will also take a look on the Ellis Island site for Alexander , I have been looking for him for months. As for Janet maybe she did marry twice, I do know her 1st hubbie died in 1922. I am re reading things trying to take it all in, must take a trip to the Mitchell myself what a wealth of information you have got.
better start searching.
Thank you both, Catherine, you did say you liked puzzles !!!!!

Jean

Hi Rootgatherer, just a quick update on Janet, can't find birth marraige or death for her Charles Nuckery on Scotland 's people, looked again at her first husband's death certificate it states he was marine fireman died 13.4.1922 at 63, possil road, residence 1, springfield pl. Glasgow,parents are Robert and Sarah nee Newell , same as on his and Janet's marraige certificate.death certificate signed by C.Balber Occupier.But this is the interesting part under his name and occupation is says Army Pensioner and Widower of ........... ( no Wife's name ).

Jean

Jean

I wonder why no-one from the family signed his death certificate. I am just wondering too was 63 Possil road a house or was it Oakbank Hospital - will have to check by birth certificate as I was born there and it will probably give the street address If not I'll ask my Mother at the weekend as I think she will know. Mind you "occupier" makes it look like a house.

What was Janet's first husband's name? Is it possible the inspector misheard or just didn't know how to spell his name?

An army pensioner in 1922 at age 63 - I wonder if he was a career soldier? If the informant didn't know who he was the widower of, had Janet died some years before? But we know she was alive in 1911.

Needs more thinking about.

Rootgatherer, Sorry for the confusion about Allan Stvevson, he was 39 when he died , 63 was the address he died at. On the 1901 census Janet is living at home with her mother Margaret and sister Leah and my grandfather Robert at Kirkland Street under her married name, Allan is living in Eaglesham street with his grandmother. Still digging.

jean

Janet's first husband's name was Allan Stevenson , they were both 19 when they married.

jean

About Oakbank Hospital.
Used to be known as Western District Hospital ( 1904 1965 )
address 63, Possil Road, Glasgow.
Pre 1948 Status Poor Law Local Authority.

so you were right about place of death for Allan Stevenson being a hospital, I was wondering too about any members of his family not signing the death cert.

jean

Hello I'm back!

Mary is on the 1911 census:-
HOUSEHOLD JONES MARY F 1871 40 West Derby Lancashire
First names MARY
Last names JONES
Birth Year 1870
<<<<Marriage Year 1891
Relationship To Head WIFE
Birth Place SCOTLAND
Residence LIVERPOOL
Other person last names JONES
Other person first names ALFRED

managed to narrow down her marriage date to 1891!

Someone on ancestry has Robert Moore:-
robert moore
Birth: 1884
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Parents
henry moore
margaret stewart
Spouse & Children
nelly mcluskey – 1927
*
duncan moore
1921 – 1988
Birth: 1921
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Death: 1988
Leeds, Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom
Spouse & Children
constance boe 1923 – 1975

jean moore

(Owner: jeanbrien1) would that happen to be you Jean?

What are you missing now?

Jean

I have just seen your thanks on the success board and it is much appreciated. Will you and Catherine be prepared to come into business with me when I finally get to retire? I think we three made a great team on this! It has been such a pleasure and I have looked forward to reading all this and taking part.

Now, I wonder if there are military records for Allan on ancestry as he did die quite young and he was an army pensioner.

When you are next in Glasgow Jean a visit to the Mitchell is a must and a look at the cemetery records could reveal more. It you find one burial, the City Council has a department that can tell you who all is buried in that lair and you may even get a burial date for John Mitchell. There may have been more children too from the Oliphant and Mitchell marriage.

Wishing you all the best from a fellow "Weggie"

Hi Catherine, welcome back
yes that is me an ancestry. Thank you for the 1911 census. I am still looking for Charles Nuckery no sign of him anywhere, looked on S,P. Ancestry and Ellis Island site, no birth, death or marraige to janet stevenson nee moore.No sign of Alexander either.
Update on Elizabeth McGregor though, remember her, Duncan's daughter.
married Robert McMenemy 1864.Died 1911.children are, mary b.1866 d.1870, martha b.1868. margaret b.1872 d. 1939. elizabeth b. 1875, agnes b.1878, robina b. 1880 and jane b. 1882.

regards jean

Rootgatherer,
Of course I will go into business with you, you and Catherine can do all the work and I will sit back and watch !!!!!

I will take a look on ancestry for Allan Stevenson see what if anything comes up.

best wishes jean