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14 Jan 2022 21:35 |
ArgyllGran, I've been unable to find anything either.
ErikaH, I've never been able to find her on the Irish census. Knowing that she was being born in Dublin hasn't helped. No mention of Edward being deceased.
Rose
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ErikaH
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13 Jan 2022 09:18 |
Have you looked at the Irish censuses?
Was her father 'deceased' when she married?
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jan 2022 09:00 |
Sadly, on irishgenealogy.ie, none of the Margaret (or Mary) Murrays born in Dublin 1872-1882 had a father named Edward.
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12 Jan 2022 20:05 |
So, according to the 1921 census, Margaret Mary Murray was born in Dublin. Perhaps that ties in with ArgyllGran's comment from 28 Oct 2020?
Rose
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29 Oct 2020 19:07 |
Sorry, had to go dig out the certs. No profession was listed on either of her marriages.
I had wondered if she had been a nurse on a ship during the Boer War, but there's no evidence of this.
Rose
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ArgyllGran
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29 Oct 2020 12:53 |
What was MMM's occupation on the marriage cert?
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ArgyllGran
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29 Oct 2020 12:52 |
This says: Widow Margaret. No children.
(Unfortunately still no address).
Wm Pards Ferguson in the UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 Name: Wm Pards Ferguson Gender: Male Birth Place: Dover Death Date: 11 Mar 1911 Death Place: London Rank: SS May Regiment: Army Service Corps Regimental Number: 8029
You say, "Freshwater was William's hometown."
No evidence of that in records. He was born in Christchurch, Hampshire (though registered in Dover) ,and was living in Portsea in 1881. In 1891 he was in the army, and at Shorncliff Camp, Folkestone.
EDIT: Bur I see his parents and siblings were in Freshwater in 1891 and later, so although William had left home and joined the army before then, I agree he would probably look on it as his home.
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ErikaH
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29 Oct 2020 12:18 |
No children from the marriage to Ferguson, so nothing else on which to base a search for her in 1911
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rootgatherer
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29 Oct 2020 08:58 |
Well that eliminates that one. Thanks for following it up Argyllgrran. I didn't have time last night.
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ArgyllGran
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29 Oct 2020 00:06 |
The same family in 1891:
Margaret Murray in the 1891 England Census Name: Margaret Murray Gender: Female Age: 10 Relationship: Daughter Birth Year: 1881 Father: Edward Murray Mother: Bessie Murray Birth Place: Westminster, London, England Civil Parish: St John the Evangalist Westminster Ecclesiastical parish: St John Residence Place: London, St John the Evangalist Westminster, London, England Registration District: St George Hanover Square Sub registration district: St John Westminster ED, Institution or Vessel: 1 Neighbors: Piece: 78 Folio: 7 Household Members: Name Age Edward Murray 39 - general labourer Bessie Murray 36 Catherine Murray 14 Margaret Murray 10 Rose Murray 6
And 1901:
Margaret Murray in the 1901 England Census Name: Margaret Murray Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female Mother: Elizabeth Murray Birth Place: Westminster, London, England Civil Parish: Lambeth Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne South Lambeth County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Registration District: Lambeth Sub-registration District: Kennington First ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Neighbors: Piece: 414 Folio: 20 Page Number: 31 Household Schedule Number: 255 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Murray 44 Catherine Murray 24 Margaret Murray 20 - worked with "Fittings, incandescent" Rose Murray 15
It doesn't look as if this Margaret would have had any opportunity to meet William Pardo.
ADDED: In fact, this is her marriage, so she's not MMM, sadly:
Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%) BURGESS Thomas Lambeth 1d 901 Murray Margaret Lambeth 1d 901
Margaret Burgess in the 1911 England Census Name: Margaret Burgess Age in 1911: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Birth Place: LONDON, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 9 Claverton Street, Pimlico S W Marital status: Married Occupation: Cookers Office [Brokers office on image ] Registration District: St George, Hanover Square Registration District Number: 5 Sub-registration District: Belgrave ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Piece: 448 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Burgess 29 Margaret Burgess 30 Thomas Lyril Edward Burgess 7 Marguerite Teresa Burgess 4 Reginald Anthony Burgess 1 Frances May Rogers 14 - servant
BURGESS, MARGUERITE TERESA mms MURRAY GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 361
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rootgatherer
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28 Oct 2020 21:24 |
????
Father a stone mason. Could that be considered a builder?
Record Transcription: 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census 6, Harpers Court, St Margaret and St John the Evangelist Westminster, St George Hanover Square, London & Middlesex, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Edward Murray Head Married Male 27 1854 Stone Mason Westminster, Middlesex, England Lizzie Murray Wife Married Female 25 1856 - Ireland Kate Murray Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Westminster, Middlesex, England Margaret Murray Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Westminster, Middlesex, England
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ArgyllGran
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28 Oct 2020 20:31 |
Desperate suggestion for 1901 ??
Mary Murray in the 1901 England Census Name: Mary Murray Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Relation to Head: Joint Occupier (Occupant) Gender: Female Birth Place: Graigue, Kilkenny, Ireland Civil Parish: Farnborough Ecclesiastical parish: Farnborough County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Street Address: Hillside School, Farnborough Road Registration District: Hartley Wintney Sub-registration District: Farnborough ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: Piece: 1103 Folio: 33 Page Number: 20 Household Schedule Number: 110
This woman is a Member of Religious [Order ?].
Amongst the many others listed with her are some other Murrays - not necessarily related, and some defiinitely aren't:
Isabelle, 25, Bangalore, India Agnes, 26, Roscommon Teresa, 23, Roscommon Justina, 20, Curragh, Kildare.
???
Margaret Murray in the 1891 England Census Name: Margaret Murray Gender: Female Age: 14 Birth Year: 1877 Birth Place: N Civil Parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael of All Angels Residence Place: Kensington, London, England Registration District: Kensington Sub registration district: Kensington Town ED, Institution or Vessel: Franciscan Convent Convent School and St Elizabeths Home
Inmate of orphanage.
Just grasping at straws!
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ArgyllGran
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28 Oct 2020 20:27 |
As she married William Pardo Ferguson so soon after his arrival back after the Boer War, they must have met either before he went away, or during a leave.
In his army record, it says he was in Dublin in 1898-99 - if that's maybe relevant ??? He was in hospital there.
Amongst other illnesses and injuries over the years, he had syphilis in the 1890s - possibly why no children?
There's no proof that he and MM stayed together from 1902 to 1911. Maybe she was living under another name in 1911. [EDIT: No, she married Frank Riddle as Ferguson .]
His army record merely states that he married Margaret Murray, IOW, 7/10/1902 - but unfortunately doesn't give an address for her, and doesn't mention her in any other context. No home address for William is given ,either. Born in Christchurch, Dover, Kent.
After his death, the record states that NOK have been informed - but doesn't say who that was.
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26 Feb 2009 22:10 |
Thanks for your hard work Evie. I need to follow up those leads.
Still miffed I can't find her in 1911. I suppose there's a small chance she's on some of the yet to be transcribed counties or in Scotland. Not holding out much hope though.
Rose
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EvieBeavie
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26 Feb 2009 03:51 |
Looks like him in 1891 - born Cheltenham, occupation bricksetter, living in Barton Upon Irwell:
Edward Murray 37 Mary Murray 38 Edward Murray 13 William Murray 5 Catherine Murray 1/12
No MMM ... and no: that Edward is accounted for in 1881, in Barton Upon Irwell. With no MMM.
Oh, well, I dunno. Could there be two this similar in 1881?
Name: Edward Murray Age: 29 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Occupation: Bricksetters Labourer Cousins, maybe. ;) Seems more likely someone enumerated him at home when he was in the workhouse, possibly because of illness.
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EvieBeavie
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26 Feb 2009 03:47 |
So taking the info at face value, and at the other end of the social scale, 1881 gives us a candidate:
Name: Edward Murray Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation: Inmate Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England > Condition as to marriage: Married > Occupation: Bricklayers Laborer Civil Parish: Barton Upon Irwell County/Island: Lancashire Street address: "Union Workhouse" Winton
No family with. There's a Mary Murray above him, aged 45, born Ireland, unmarried, who is likely unrelated, just got grouped with him under the Ms, I'd say.
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EvieBeavie
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26 Feb 2009 03:29 |
And you know, there are the old standbys.
Born Margaret Mary Murray to an unmarried woman who subsequently married, MMM appears in the censuses under a stepfather's surname. Or to a married couple named Murray, mother subsequently widowed and remarried ...
Real father was Edward, but not Murray. Stepfather was Edward, but not Murray. ... Stepfather was Edward Murray, MMM was born with a different surname ...
Etc. ...
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EvieBeavie
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26 Feb 2009 03:19 |
I thought this one was a little interesting, in view of the father's name, origin and occupation.
Births Sep 1879 Murray Margaret Mary A E A Chester 8a 395
1881
Name: Alexander Murray Age: 44 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary A.M. Where born: Ireland Occupation: Major (And) Lt Col (Militia) Antrim Rifles (And) J P Civil Parish: St Mary County/Island: Cheshire Street address: The Lache Registration district: Chester Sub registration district: Chester Castle
Alexander Murray 44 Mary A.M. Murray 36 Charles S. Murray 10 James P. Murray 8 Mary Murray 6 Patrick Murray 3 > Marguirite Murray 1 Alice Cramsie 26 Ellen Williams 30 Isabella Dogine 43 Ann Peak 16 Mary Draycott 26
But then I see interesting coincidences everywhere. ;)
They're in London in 1891, but I can't find a trace of any of them in 1901.
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26 Feb 2009 02:10 |
Right before the Boer War he was a staff sergeant I think. So not a high rank.
Rose
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EvieBeavie
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26 Feb 2009 01:45 |
Ah, true that, she would have been a bit long in the tooth. ;)
I think that Dalkeith business is really quite interesting. Much like the strange noble surname that shows up as a middle name in one of my own families out of the total blue. Your Dalkeith is a good deal rarer and more specific, though.
What class are we talking about with your Margaret and William? Was he an officer, for instance, or an Imperial Yeomanry grunt, in the Anglo-Boer war?
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