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Great Grandmother Mystery

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 26 Feb 2009 02:10

Right before the Boer War he was a staff sergeant I think. So not a high rank.

Rose

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 26 Feb 2009 03:19

I thought this one was a little interesting, in view of the father's name, origin and occupation.


Births Sep 1879
Murray Margaret Mary A E A Chester 8a 395


1881

Name: Alexander Murray
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A.M.
Where born: Ireland
Occupation: Major (And) Lt Col (Militia) Antrim Rifles (And) J P

Civil Parish: St Mary
County/Island: Cheshire

Street address: The Lache
Registration district: Chester
Sub registration district: Chester Castle

Alexander Murray 44
Mary A.M. Murray 36
Charles S. Murray 10
James P. Murray 8
Mary Murray 6
Patrick Murray 3
> Marguirite Murray 1
Alice Cramsie 26
Ellen Williams 30
Isabella Dogine 43
Ann Peak 16
Mary Draycott 26


But then I see interesting coincidences everywhere. ;)

They're in London in 1891, but I can't find a trace of any of them in 1901.

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 26 Feb 2009 03:29

And you know, there are the old standbys.

Born Margaret Mary Murray to an unmarried woman who subsequently married, MMM appears in the censuses under a stepfather's surname. Or to a married couple named Murray, mother subsequently widowed and remarried ...

Real father was Edward, but not Murray. Stepfather was Edward, but not Murray. ... Stepfather was Edward Murray, MMM was born with a different surname ...

Etc. ...

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 26 Feb 2009 03:47

So taking the info at face value, and at the other end of the social scale, 1881 gives us a candidate:

Name: Edward Murray
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Inmate
Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
> Condition as to marriage: Married
> Occupation: Bricklayers Laborer

Civil Parish: Barton Upon Irwell
County/Island: Lancashire

Street address: "Union Workhouse" Winton


No family with. There's a Mary Murray above him, aged 45, born Ireland, unmarried, who is likely unrelated, just got grouped with him under the Ms, I'd say.

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 26 Feb 2009 03:51

Looks like him in 1891 - born Cheltenham, occupation bricksetter, living in Barton Upon Irwell:

Edward Murray 37
Mary Murray 38
Edward Murray 13
William Murray 5
Catherine Murray 1/12

No MMM ...

and no: that Edward is accounted for in 1881, in Barton Upon Irwell. With no MMM.

Oh, well, I dunno. Could there be two this similar in 1881?

Name: Edward Murray
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Occupation: Bricksetters Labourer

Cousins, maybe. ;) Seems more likely someone enumerated him at home when he was in the workhouse, possibly because of illness.

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 26 Feb 2009 22:10

Thanks for your hard work Evie. I need to follow up those leads.

Still miffed I can't find her in 1911. I suppose there's a small chance she's on some of the yet to be transcribed counties or in Scotland. Not holding out much hope though.

Rose

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 28 Oct 2020 20:27

As she married William Pardo Ferguson so soon after his arrival back after the Boer War, they must have met either before he went away, or during a leave.

In his army record, it says he was in Dublin in 1898-99 - if that's maybe relevant ??? He was in hospital there.

Amongst other illnesses and injuries over the years, he had syphilis in the 1890s - possibly why no children?

There's no proof that he and MM stayed together from 1902 to 1911. Maybe she was living under another name in 1911. [EDIT: No, she married Frank Riddle as Ferguson .]

His army record merely states that he married Margaret Murray, IOW, 7/10/1902 - but unfortunately doesn't give an address for her, and doesn't mention her in any other context.
No home address for William is given ,either.
Born in Christchurch, Dover, Kent.

After his death, the record states that NOK have been informed - but doesn't say who that was.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 28 Oct 2020 20:31

Desperate suggestion for 1901 ??

Mary Murray
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Mary Murray
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Joint Occupier (Occupant)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Graigue, Kilkenny, Ireland
Civil Parish: Farnborough
Ecclesiastical parish: Farnborough
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address: Hillside School, Farnborough Road
Registration District: Hartley Wintney
Sub-registration District: Farnborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 1103
Folio: 33
Page Number: 20
Household Schedule Number: 110

This woman is a Member of Religious [Order ?].

Amongst the many others listed with her are some other Murrays - not necessarily related, and some defiinitely aren't:

Isabelle, 25, Bangalore, India
Agnes, 26, Roscommon
Teresa, 23, Roscommon
Justina, 20, Curragh, Kildare.



???

Margaret Murray
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Margaret Murray
Gender: Female
Age: 14
Birth Year: 1877
Birth Place: N
Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael of All Angels
Residence Place: Kensington, London, England
Registration District: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, Institution or Vessel: Franciscan Convent Convent School and St Elizabeths Home

Inmate of orphanage.


Just grasping at straws!

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 28 Oct 2020 21:24

????

Father a stone mason. Could that be considered a builder?

Record Transcription:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
6, Harpers Court, St Margaret and St John the Evangelist Westminster, St George Hanover Square, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Edward Murray Head Married Male 27 1854 Stone Mason Westminster, Middlesex, England
Lizzie Murray Wife Married Female 25 1856 - Ireland
Kate Murray Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Westminster, Middlesex, England
Margaret Murray Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Westminster, Middlesex, England

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 29 Oct 2020 00:06

The same family in 1891:

Margaret Murray
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Margaret Murray
Gender: Female
Age: 10
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1881
Father: Edward Murray
Mother: Bessie Murray
Birth Place: Westminster, London, England
Civil Parish: St John the Evangalist Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Residence Place: London, St John the Evangalist Westminster, London, England
Registration District: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: St John Westminster
ED, Institution or Vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 78
Folio: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Murray 39 - general labourer
Bessie Murray 36
Catherine Murray 14
Margaret Murray 10
Rose Murray 6


And 1901:

Margaret Murray
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Margaret Murray
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Mother: Elizabeth Murray
Birth Place: Westminster, London, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne South Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Registration District: Lambeth
Sub-registration District: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors:
Piece: 414
Folio: 20
Page Number: 31
Household Schedule Number: 255
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Murray 44
Catherine Murray 24
Margaret Murray 20 - worked with "Fittings, incandescent"
Rose Murray 15

It doesn't look as if this Margaret would have had any opportunity to meet William Pardo.


ADDED:
In fact, this is her marriage, so she's not MMM, sadly:

Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%)
BURGESS Thomas Lambeth 1d 901
Murray Margaret Lambeth 1d 901



Margaret Burgess
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Margaret Burgess
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: LONDON, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 9 Claverton Street, Pimlico S W
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Cookers Office [Brokers office on image ]
Registration District: St George, Hanover Square
Registration District Number: 5
Sub-registration District: Belgrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Piece: 448
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Burgess 29
Margaret Burgess 30
Thomas Lyril Edward Burgess 7
Marguerite Teresa Burgess 4
Reginald Anthony Burgess 1
Frances May Rogers 14 - servant


BURGESS, MARGUERITE TERESA mms MURRAY
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 361

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Oct 2020 08:58

Well that eliminates that one. Thanks for following it up Argyllgrran. I didn't have time last night.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 29 Oct 2020 12:18

No children from the marriage to Ferguson, so nothing else on which to base a search for her in 1911

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 29 Oct 2020 12:52

This says:
Widow Margaret. No children.

(Unfortunately still no address).

Wm Pards Ferguson
in the UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929
Name: Wm Pards Ferguson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Dover
Death Date: 11 Mar 1911
Death Place: London
Rank: SS May
Regiment: Army Service Corps
Regimental Number: 8029


You say,
"Freshwater was William's hometown."

No evidence of that in records. He was born in Christchurch, Hampshire (though registered in Dover) ,and was living in Portsea in 1881.
In 1891 he was in the army, and at Shorncliff Camp, Folkestone.

EDIT:
Bur I see his parents and siblings were in Freshwater in 1891 and later, so although William had left home and joined the army before then, I agree he would probably look on it as his home.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 29 Oct 2020 12:53

What was MMM's occupation on the marriage cert?

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 29 Oct 2020 19:07

Sorry, had to go dig out the certs. No profession was listed on either of her marriages.

I had wondered if she had been a nurse on a ship during the Boer War, but there's no evidence of this.

Rose

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 12 Jan 2022 20:05

So, according to the 1921 census, Margaret Mary Murray was born in Dublin. Perhaps that ties in with ArgyllGran's comment from 28 Oct 2020?

Rose

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Jan 2022 09:00

Sadly, on irishgenealogy.ie, none of the Margaret (or Mary) Murrays born in Dublin 1872-1882 had a father named Edward.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 13 Jan 2022 09:18

Have you looked at the Irish censuses?

Was her father 'deceased' when she married?

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 14 Jan 2022 21:35

ArgyllGran, I've been unable to find anything either.

ErikaH, I've never been able to find her on the Irish census. Knowing that she was being born in Dublin hasn't helped. No mention of Edward being deceased.

Rose