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Thanks to Lancashireann's suggestion I googled Albert Street St. Helens 1861 and found a link to it. I searched the images twice but couldn't find the family. If anyone else would care to double check it's under Lancashire-St.Helen-District 3. Images 39 to 51 cover Albert Street and Back Albert Street. What I didn't check was to see if there were any missing pages by checking that the household schedule numbers ran consecutively (I'm loathe to go through them all again as my pc is being very slow in loading the images!) Maybe the family moved to Hapton soon after Robert Henry's birth but before the census?

Just looked and Hapton only has 2 districts so will look at them and post any news tomorrow.

Hi Julie x..ive did what you described..but didnt see any link to any Lancashire district 3..so sorry i cant look to check for you

now im off to bed night night x

Sorry John stupid of me not to explain more fully. I have a sub to ancestry uk which makes it possible to search records and look at images. I searched on the 1861 census by location rather than person so County was Lancashire, Reg district St Helens and enumeration district 3 which covers Albert Street. Didn't find the family in Hapton either. Some areas of 1861 census are missing/destroyed but as far as I can ascertain not the areas we are looking in. This makes me wonder if ancestry hasn't yet transcribed the whole census-they don't give specific information about coverage on the site -or if they do I haven't found that info. Anyone know if this is the case?
Juliex

Hi Julie x and others ,

ive been re-checking any and all info i have on Mary Martin from Scotlands People... marriage and death certs , any census with her in them... but still cant find any info that may have eluded me, even tried cross checking with info from your goodselves about Burnley Martins who had family in Glasgow circa 1851, but still found nothing linking anyone with Mary Martin(my grt gran)

tried free bmd again searching for any Mary Martin's born Lancashire 1856...found 1 born ST Helens..and thats as far as the info went...lol

other than that...though... i did find when i first joined 5 month ago...and did a search for McMunnagil that someone called Julie(McColl). had all same lineage as me but that was from 2003/4 when she was on...yes ive messaged her and a Donald Jenkins too as his grt gran was sister to my grt grandad..but ive never had a reply from any

so would like to thank you all for your endevour in this search
may give it another week and then let it die gracefully..untill i find more info on the Martin family

Thanks : John57

Don't give up at least until I have a chance to look at the original 1861 census & indices on fiche, hopefully during this next week. Tried to fin where Mary might have been baptised but no luck in the churches of St Helen's where there were any records. Not tried tyldsley yet.

Hi Ann ,
Ive not giving up yet...just easing a bit...lol...i dont have enough info to even begin to help you all with your search's
and as ive said i only know from certs ive seen in Scotlandspeople that she was born in England to a Henry Martin and Rebecca Martin m s McEwan...ohh and the info from familysearch which could be wrong and sending me ...thus you all on wild goose chase
will still be trying to research Mary and her family as best i can
so please continue Ann and if and when you and others are searched out ill decide to close this thread

thanks for your help
John57 mwah

More conclusive evidence that the Burnley Martins relate back to the Henry Martin at 1 Hartfield St in in the 1851 census. Henry's daughter Rebecca named her son after her cousin Rennie Boomer.

Name: Rennie Boomer Hargreaves
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Burnley
County: Lancashire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 8e

(He is mistranscribed as Rennie Barnes Hargreaves in one of the census')

There are quite a few Rennie Hargreaves born in Padiham in subsequent years too.
Might not be John's family but it's a nice link to find!

aww Julie..you went and searched all that... and it was on page 4 of this thread...hehehe...i found that info then and added it to thread..sorry mwah

Hey John wot u like stealing my glory! I posted on page 4 that there may be a link between Rebecca Hargreaves son's name and Rennie Boomer and I've just confirmed it!
Julie x

wasnt stealing your glory Julie...lol i found this and posted it...lol link from Glasgow Martins to Burnley ones....pmsl

Rennie Boomer... found his death 1866..and had married an Ann Sweeney had 3 kids..after death Ann re-married someone else ,found her and new family on 1871 census

Henry.... married Rebcca 1852..Rebecca jnr born Hatfield St..so either they still stayed with Henry's mother or had flat in same tenement..still nothing for 1861 census in Scotland for them... but sometime after Rebecca jnr was born in nov 1855..and Mary being born in 57/58 they had moved to Burnley area..nothing to link Mary with this family thats concrete..other than name Mary which no one has found info on yet..i.e. census showing a Mary with household either 1861 (aged 3/4) or 1871 (13/14 ish)

I thought your post re Rennie Boomer was in response to me posting the possible link but it really doesn't matter - it's keeping the thread nudged and I'm not really looking for glory lol!
Julie x

as ive seen with my ancesters...maybe Henry moved down to Burnley beside other martin relatives..and maybe thats why names are similiar...his father could have been Henry and had a few sons..who in due course called there son henry..i seen with mine that John ,Robert,James,Isabella,Rebecca appear in sons/daughters children...wouldnt account for the wife being rebecca with all 3 dif Henry's...lol thats a mystery...

bed time for me...night night julie x and all

night john...............................................just a thought though............have you searched for Elizabeth Martin's birth under McEwan or Carnachan? The record of Henry Martin/Rebecca Carnachan's marriage that you allowed me access to on Scotland People was a proclamation of intention to marry (banns) so we don't actually know for sure that they married in 1852...........

Rebecca jnrs birth cert shows they married in 1852 in Glasgow

Have we had this one? 1851
Name: Rebecca McEwen
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Chester St John The Baptist
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth McEwen 40 -Where born: Ita British Subject
Rebecca McEwen 16
Mary McEwen 11
Bridget McEwen 8
John McEwen 5

dont know much about rebecca ....janice...so cant say if she related or not , even with wrong spelling ...but as we know that goes for nothing....lol thanks for adding it ... mwah

Found that family in 1861 & Rebecca is married:

1861 England Census
about Bridget McEwen
Name: Bridget McEwen
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Chester, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth McEwen 45
Bridget McEwen 18
John McEwen 14
Henry Headsfirth 25
Rebecca Headsfirth 24
Catherine Kelly 25


Elizabeth mistranscribed as coming from Ireland. Interestingly she has only aged by 5 years since the last census haha

well that scores that Henry and Rebecca off the list married name Headsfirth

well done ladies mwah

ive now closed this thread and would like to thank all who took time to search and assist me in my search

no ..not any further on ...but will leave till have more concrete evidence of birthplace

once again ill thank you searchers