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1861 Institution: Colchester Infantry Barracks,
RODGERS, John Head Of Family Married M 34 1827 Sergeant Army
Marksbury
Somerset

1891 Address: 143, Blackstock Road, Hornsey
RODGERS, John Head Married M 64 1827 Army Pensioner
Marksbury
Somersetshire
RODGERS, Emma Wife Married F 50 1841
Colchester
Essex
RODGERS, Sarah Daughter Single F 20 1871 Dressmaker
Scotland
RODGERS, William Son Single M 17 1874 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, George Son M 16 1875 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, Thomas Son M 13 1878
Scotland
RODGERS, Charles Son M 11 1880
Scotland

And Lorraine, remember, it is a bit beyond coincidence -- your Bill actually knew Rosa Rodgers in Hackney as his mother.

My bigamy theory fits, because if it was found out, she would have reverted to being Rosa Rodgers. ;)

Hi Christine - not to be pushy, but Lorraine says she has all of Rosa's lineage and is in touch with her family.

She's Herman Roland Panzer's mother!

Marriages Jun 1888
Dyball Maria St Giles 1b 830
PANEER Charles George St Giles 1b 830
PAUZER Charles George St Giles 1b 830

1901 census
Charles G Garger 43
Maria Garger 43
Hermann K Garger 11

So depending on what Herman Roland Panzer was to your Bill -- father, uncle ... -- she could have been his grandmother or his great-aunt or some such, I would guess.


Here's an exciting thought. Hermann Sr's marriage to Rosa was bigamous because he was already married to Dora Rossiter ...

1891 Address: 143, Blackstock Road, Hornsey
RODGERS, John Head Married M 64 1827 Army Pensioner
Marksbury
Somersetshire
RODGERS, Emma Wife Married F 50 1841
Colchester
Essex
RODGERS, Sarah Daughter Single F 20 1871 Dressmaker
Scotland
RODGERS, William Son Single M 17 1874 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, George Son M 16 1875 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, Thomas Son M 13 1878
Scotland
RODGERS, Charles Son M 11 1880
Scotland

But you said Panser! ....... we have to be able to reproduce the results, to assess them.

The quarter hasn't been transcribed yet, indeed.

Rogers, Rosa - Pawser - Hackney - 1b - 763

Yup, entered as
Pawser, Herman R
in the corresponding entry.
And yup, I'd say contemporary mistranscription.

You're sure that the 1919 birth cert says William George Roland *Pansie*? I guess it says it in at least two places, so I guess so. Again -- could be contemporary mistranscription.

I'm not quite sure how these things work, but can the original record -- the thing with the volume and page number -- be checked?

Would Bill have been christened?

Maria Dyball is a person Bill remembers living with as a "maiden" aunt - elderly aunt - where do you think she fits into this as I cannot see the link, yet eviebeavie you have mentioned her in one of your replies?

1861


Civil Parish: Westminster St James

Charles Panzer 30 - Ancestry says born Sussex; image says Saxony
Sophia Panzer 28 - born Hanover
Chas Geo Panzer 4 - born Hanover
Hulda Panzer 2 - born Middx St Jas West
Max Panzer 9 Mo - " "

Charles is a tailor.

We have found reference to Rosa's marriage to a Pawser, but this again could be a spelling issue as it is difficult to determine in actuall Panser on the index page.
Hackney, 4th quarter, vol 1b page 763 header page 232. - we have ordered this in the hope it may at least close some loops

I guess unless we can determine whether HRP became Armyn Palmer, Bill's dad, then we are relying on coincidence.

1901 Address: 143, Blackstock Road, Stoke Newington
RODGERS, William Head Married M 27 1874 Postman Division 1
Scotland VIEW
RODGERS, Rosa E Wife Married F 26 1875
Clapham
London
RODGERS, William J Son M 6 1895
Islington
London
RODGERS, Rosa Daughter F 5 1896
Islington
London
RODGERS, Minnie Daughter F 4 1897
Islington
London
RODGERS, John Son M 2 1899
S Hornsey
London
WEDD, Gwendoline Lodger Single F 11 1890
S Hornsey
London

Christine

Don't let Charles fool you. ;) He was Carl (if not Karl like his daddy), and born in Germany.

Re: A birth to the marriage of Herman R Panzer and Dora G Rossiter 1912:

Births Jun 1915
Panzer Basil T Rossiter Islington 1b 241

(It seems he could be a half-brother of your Bill, since his father was apparently Hermann Roland Panzer 1889 -- if HRP was your Bill's father.)


-- a Basil I Panzer was on the electoral roll sometime 2002-2007 but is not on the current list. There were no other occupants with him.

I have checked and it was Mercers Road Islington, and that agrees with your findings as it has Maria listed as birthplace Caistor, but with Charles birthplace as Soho London.

content edited into preceding message

Nope, sorry, don't see it. Oh well. They're pretty likely all related anyhow, so you can tuck them away.

Now - could you clarify that 1917 marriage? Does one have to download the image to find it? Because it really doesn't seem to be transcribed at FreeBMD.


I guess you're getting the drift that I do think you're on the right track with Panzers. ;)


... Yes, and this is why I threw Karl in when I searched too, because Carl isn't the German spelling.

1871:

Karl H Panzer 40
Amelia Panzer 38
Carl G Panzer 13
Halday Panzer 10
Max Panzer 8
Ita Panzer 5
Oscar Panzer 2
Augus Frohbert 41


This is giving you loads of rellies to go hunting for. If you hadn't seen these before ... . You'll find names like Max in the BMDs, for instance.

apologies, but I thought that I had included that info in original posting. Thank you for your help.

Soho my big toe. And Charles my gnarly knuckles.

I suspected that the Anglicization process had begun, so I searched for Carl (a name I had already seen in these census searches).


1881

Name: Carl G. Panger
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Carl H.
Mother's Name: Amelia S.
Where born: Germany
Occupation: Telegraphic Engineer

Name: Carl H. Panger
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Amelia S.
Where born: Germany
Condition as to marriage:
Occupation: Tailor (Employing 1 Boy)

Name: Amelia S. Panger
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Carl H.
Where born: Germany

Civil Parish: St George Bloomsbury
County/Island: London

Street address: 40 Bernard St
Registration district: St Giles

FreeBMD hasn't got it quite right yet.


Marriages Jun 1888
> Dyball Maria St Giles 1b 830
Knott Frederick Thomas St.Giles 1b 830
NORFOLK Matilda Louise St Giles 1b 830
> PANEER Charles George St Giles 1b 830
> PAUZER Charles George St Giles 1b 830

Okay, thank Ancestry for that one.

Name: Hermann K Garger
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles G
Mother's Name: Maria
Where born: Islington, London, England

Name: Charles G Garger
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Maria
Where born: Soho, London, England

Name: Maria Garger
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles G
Where born: Caister, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Registration district: Islington

Charles G Garger 43
Maria Garger 43
Hermann K Garger 11