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OK.....OK....Stop your fighting over who’s better!! You are bother wonderful, I’ve been trying to connect this English family to the American family for a long time. I think you’ve both done it!!. Thank you very much.

Anybody want Martha's siblings?


Results for:
British Isles
Father: Joseph Porter, Mother: Mary
Batch Number: C097891

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 3

1. MARTHA PORTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 14 APR 1811 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
2. JOHN PORTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 MAY 1809 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
3. THOMAS PORTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 APR 1813 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

The birth record is copied straight from scotlandspeople, and the John I think refers to his father. Is that different to what you have? Regards Linda

Linda -- you can send images directly from Ancestry w/o saving them first.

Looking at the image, there are four little icons just above it on the right side. The third one is "Share". Click there and you get a form for sending it to someone.

The person who receives it has to "Save" because access to the image on the Ancestry site is for a very brief time when it's sent that way.

When you access the image, Harris, try switching between "original" and "enhanced" image using the Options button in the row above the image. Sometimes the original image is easier to read than the enhanced, if it's faint. For the 1841, the enhanced is clearer, but that might help if Linda manages to send you what she's got. (Whatever it is, it's more than I have access to, so I can't help.)

Where's Harris?!? I want my prize.

Yeaa!! Hadn't even tried to find poor martha,well done evie. And harris told me privately that david was a brass/iron moulder, so I think we've got his journey. Linda :)

The only thing I can see on the top of the U.S. census for 1860 & 1870 is the 15th Ward and 16th Ward. I don’t know how this relates to District’s? You may be able to see this on the census descriptions somewhere? It would be interesting if this slave owner were this Martha, it would also tell me Martha’s middle name was “M” and approximate birth date, 1810. Does it give the slave lady’s name? I did actually have his birth details and parents names, although I haven’t seen him referred to as David “John” Kilgour, is that what the registry says?

Fits for Martha:


MARTHA PORTER
Christening: 14 APR 1811 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father: JOSEPH PORTER
Mother: MARY
Batch No.: C097891

I just absolutely hate starting on something and finding *nothing*! You never know, maybe I make it up. ;)

PM me your email address, Harris, and I'll send you the image from Ancestry. The proof. ;)

For the 1841, the image definitely says Kilgour.

David's occupation is

Iron Moulder.

Joseph's is ditto.

You are such a show off evie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps you can send harris the images from ancestry, my comp (and probably I) are too old!! Cheers Linda :)

Hi again, tried to save it and send but no joy I'm afraid. Davids occupation is definitely brass .???.................... so I'd say this is your guy. And Martha (following later) could quite often be mistranscribed as mary. The martha M who is the slave owner is the right age, etc, so I'd say she's also your martha, unless they went out to family. But to have 2 martha's, same age is a bit hard to swallow. If you want to message me your home address, I don't mind sending the images on, (don't put it on here!), although the quality is not that good. Alteratively you can get a 2 week trial of ancestry and get them that way. Regards Linda

Oops, left out an important bit:


Name: David Rilgom
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland


Oh, and:

Name: Joseph Rilgom
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Look what I found. (You gotta know how to trick Ancestry. Kilg* didn't work, Hilg* didn't work, but Rilg* did the trick.)


1841

Name: Martha Rilgom
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Manchester
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: Newton

David Rilgom 32
Martha Rilgom 30
Mary Rilgom 10
Geoe Rilgom 5
John Rilgom 1
Joseph Rilgom 22


Bilg* was next up. ;)

What the census shows is that Martha owned the slave, and the area is district 5, st marys, maryland, which I think is where they were living in 1870? And you probably already have this, but if not it would appear to be David 1809's birth?

18/06/1809 KILGOUR DAVID JOHN KILGOUR/ELIZABETH LITSTER FR920 M Abbotshall /FIFE 399/ 0030 0200

Just re-checked my 1870 Baltimore census and David, Martha and John appear on it. Also John’s new family, David, Martha and Melville, but no wife. I don’t think the Martha M. female slave is part of this family. I do know that George died rather early, probably in his teen years in America.

Do you have the 1860's US slave register which shows martha m kilgour b 1810 having 1 female slave aged 50yrs? Had a peep at the 1870's census and mary is not there as you say. Regards Linda

PS the only david kilgour appearing on the 1841 census who might match is born in Perthshire in 1811, but no martha or children. By the by,her age changes by 2 years whichever record you check. This is very interesting!!

Hi Linda,
The official christening dates were:
Mary: 1830
George: 1842
John: 1845
I didn’t know whether Mary (the daughter) emigrated or not. I thought she might have married and stayed in England as she doesn’t appear on the U.S. census. Maybe she went to America and married before the family first appeared on the census. I presume you can’t see any other obvious family’s in the early 1850’s on the records, so this is probably the correct family. I would love to get copies of the original pages if it is possible.
Harris.

ANOTHER P.S. David Kilgour was from Scotland but married in England. I don't know where Martha came from, possibility she could even be Irish.

Do you know if david and martha had any children after 1829 and before george and john. It wasn't common in those days to wait so long before the first birth. I haven't come across anything in the census either, (concentrated on 1841), so unless they were scottish or irish, it's all a bit odd! Oh, and my real name is Linda!

Sorry, just re read your post and you mention mary in 1830, but again to wait another 12 years before the next child?

Hi "Hoping",
I understand what you say about birth and Christening dates, but as David Kilgour and Martha Porter only married in 1829, the birth dates must be reasonably close. The marriage and Christenings took place in Manchester Cathedral and the dates have been taken from the Cathedrals register. I haven’t been able to find them on any England census, but it was only a quick search that I did. They may have emigrated between census collections?
Harris.

P.S. I should have mentioned that I have found the family on a couple of U.S. Census in the 1860 & 1870's. They were in Baltimore, Maryland..
Harris.

Hi Harris, I have several ancestors who were christened literally 20 odd years after their birth dates, and quite often census records are 5 years out, so every date has to be questioned. Have you found david and martha on any census'? Regards Linda