Find Ancestors

elizabeth is a widow


1861 England Census
about Albert Richer
Name: Albert Richer
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Rotherhithe, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: Rotherhithe
Sub registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 128
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Richer 64
William Richer 25
Albert Richer 18<<<hair dresser and perfumer

next household been chucked in with the richers by transcriber
John Strant
Margaret Kent 45
Charles Roberts 23
John Harris 16
Fredk R Ballen 15
Harry Knight 15

81 paradise street
red lion

Poor you Evie - have you been working?

I'm going to make a cup of tea & then go to bed, I'm shattered as well - tomorrow is another day & with fresh eyes I may find them.

Night night x

Trust me, you don't want me. I didn't sleep last night. All censuses look alike to me right now. One Albert would be just as good as another. I could weave you fantastical tales ... if I managed not to flop face down on the keyboard first.

Mañana!

OMG - Evie/Vivienne are you still there? I feel like crying or throwing something!!!

I thought ok, now I know what I'm doing I'll investigate the Hollands & the Richers but ..............its not as easy as that!! Is it ever?

1851 Census
Albert Richer age 8 living with his brothers & widowed Mother, Elizabeth Richer in Rotherhithe.
I cannot find the family in 1841 or 1861!!!

1861 Census
Eliza Holland age 20 is living with her sister, Elizabeth, brother, George, and mother Elizabeth who is a Mariners Wife (no husband at home) in Greenwich
I cannot find the family in 1841 or 1851!!!

Neither have fathers present in the census!!!

Would you mind looking on Ancestry for me please? I bet The Genealogist has transcribed the surnames incorrectly!!

Well, this is really to say another but very sincere thank you to Evie & Vivienne - you're complete stars!!!

Evie - poor you with a Smith to find, I wish I could help you!! They're not in West Sussex by any chance are they?

Vivienne - very good but I'm not Richer, I'm a lot poorer with all of these certificates I've been buying!!!

Thanks so much ladies, Sue xx

i dont even own a violin,let alone keep one on the tv.

And Emily Litella means I just said something really stupid and you should pay me no heed. ;)

What's all this about violins on TV?!?

dutch=holland
dutch=share the expenses [english saying]

Oh. Duh. Never mind.

signed, Emily Litella

........ uh ......... "dutch"?

I get "richer", hahaha.

Dutch. Hm. Don't make me figure out jokes when I worked all night.

Sue
well it certainly seems that your blood line just got ,,richer,,,
but you may have to go ,,dutch,,

haw, haw,
couldnt resist!!

poke,nudge
for evie

I think so. ;)

Hey, I'm pretty sure I have to abandon my Cooper line and go for the Smith line. Not quite the same thing -- the only instance in my tree that I know of where my female ancestor managed to have my own direct ancestor before marrying. In all the other cases, mine was one of the ones born after marriage. So yippee, I have an out-of-wedlock Smith. It doesn't get much better!

But yours are not the first branches I've helped to lop off trees. I seem to be particularly good at proving that Barnards aren't Barnards, oddly.

Just think of all the new certificates you'll be needing!

Poke me on Sunday about the Ancestry stuff. It's been a looooong week.

Hi

The certificates arrived this morning and, sure enough, Eleanor Richer's Mother was Eliza Allen Richer nee Holland. This means, as we suspected, Albert Richer's parents were the same and I think that is as close as I'm going to get to prove that this is my Albert Barnard, don't you?

I also received Eliza Allen's death cert which shows that she died of Epilepsy in January 1875 - Albert was born 29 August 1874. They were living in Church Street, Deptford.

The Barnards lived in Pender Street & Berthon Street which were roads off of Church Street, so they could well have been neighbours.

I think I now need to research the Richer & Holland lines, do you?

Sue

Oh -- next thing is to make that your address for contacts from GR. That way, if you get email notification of PMs, they'll all be stuck away there and you can just delete or archive them en masse. And use it for genealogy correspondence generally -- that way you're not giving out your "official" email, and people will recognize you from the addy!

I'll get to it tomorrow if I get a few minutes. Poke me Wednesday evening if I haven't reported back!

Evie Beavie - I've sent you a pm

Sue -- get yourself a nice anonymous email account at www.gmail.com -- something like

[email protected]

;) -- and send it to me, and when I get some moments I'll add corrections for you with the email address. Good that you've done it on the other site. Ancestry may get more traffic, though.

Just to let you know that I've ordered the birth cert for Eleanor Richer & also the death cert for Eliza Allen Richer - fingers crossed that they shed some more light for us.

EvieBeavie - I can't put corrections on Ancestry as I don't have membership with them, I subscribe to The Genealogist - or do you not need to be a member to correct errors? I've corrected them on The Genealogist website.

That certainly looks like Eliza in 1861, I too had found that entry but I cannot find the family in 1851 or 1841!!!!

I think that Holland/Barnard marriage was a coincidence & I didn't realise that there were so many Holland/Barnard marriages taking place.

I wish I could find Robert Barnard & Ellen's marriage - there are a couple of possibles, I may need to just try them both. They didn't have any children of their own, maybe they couldn't. Maybe Albert & Eliza Richer were friends or neighbours & when Eliza died, they adopted baby Albert. If thats the case, then there will be no family connection to find?

Marriage June Q 1880 in St Saviour
Robert Barnard & Sarah Ann HOLLAND


Hmm. Eliza Allen Holland Richer was already dead, and Robert Barnard was already (at least in the 1881 census) living with Ellen "?" In 1871 in fact, as Bornick at Ancestry.

FreeBMD actually has a couple of dozen Barnard-Holland marriages. And somewhat oddly, Robert is a more common name among Barnards than among the general population in the 19th century.

This looks like that couple in 1881:

Name: Robert Barnard
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah - born Southwark c1859
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England

with daughter Alice.


This looks like her household in 1861 in Southwark St John Horsleydown:

Henry Holland 27
Jane Holland 26
Susan J Holland 11
Sarah A Holland 2

Eliza Allen Holland Richer was born c1841, per the 1871 census.

I'd bet on this being her in 1861:

Name: Eliza Holland
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Greenwich St Alphege
County/Island: Kent
Registration district: Greenwich

Elizabeth Holland 50
Eliza Holland 20
Elizabeth Holland 18
George Holland 13


No likely connection appearing.

Hi Alison -- just to assure you it's all been tried! These Barnards showed up as Bornick in one transcription. In fact, with surnames so often mistranscribed but given names a little harder for transcribers to mess up, it's often best to search by given name with date and place of birth and parent's/spouse's given name only. I think that's how two of us found the Bornicks.

I have some elusive Barnards in my tree, and you'll find corrections all over Ancestry for Barnards who are unrelated to mine, but whom I've encountered and fixed in my searches for my own. ;)

And Sue -- you do need to get cracking on making corrections to those census records at Ancestry. You never know who might see them some day and get in touch. I've had two long-lost distant cousins with all sorts of interesting info contact me through those correction links.