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Yeh! Yeh! Yeh! Hip Hip Horray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOUND THEM AT LONG LAST. THEY ARE ALL LIVING AT 51 DEMARK ST. AND NOW I VAGUELY RECALL THEY LIVED AT ANOTHER HOUSEIN THAT STREET, BEFORE 41. ONLY ONE DAUGHTER WAS NOT THERE, MARGARET (Maggie).
EMILY 12yrs... FLORENCE 9yrs....William 8yrs....LOUISA 7yrs...Ralph 5yrs
MARY ..3yrs. Emma...1yr.

The other two Lizzie and Christina weren't born until after 1911 they were the youngest two.

SO ITs THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE.


this will help with when each of them were born and I will try to get birth certs. then it will marraige certs for them all...........I maybe able to stwich off and sleep tonight. THANK AGAIN....WOW!!!!>

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Heh, Janice - Louisa 1903 is indeed *the* person of interest here!

Quick, Jean -- we want to know! Is it them? Gives us all the details!

1911 if you put Emma Williams 1909/1910
Residential place West Derby
AND AM I RIGHT IN THINKING THERE SHOULD BE A LOUISA
put her name in the other members of the household box and you will only get 1 result!

Thanks for message. I now have Emma William b.cert. she lived in 81 Back Salisbury Street , Everton South, West Derby. in 1909. But that doesn't show up on 1911 census..

Hi had a quick look on 1911 .I searched Emma born 1909/10
and wonder about the one in West Derby.
So back to search page
surname Williams
residential place West Derby
other members of the household Emma

This search does come back with 200+ but you could perhaps then see if any details match yours ,perhaps putting in a different name than Emma may shorten the list ,but i have lost the plot of names /dob on the thread at the moment!

Just searched with William in 1st name /Emma still in household and narrowed it to 16 if any of those William's look like yours

I'm almost glad I don't need anything in the 1911 census. Imagine waiting all that time and not finding it.

Have you looked at the image for the block? Find a next-door or nearby address, and look at the image, and see whether it says anything for where 41 should be!

Well at last 1911 census are on line. But I still cannot find anything to do with my Williams family. I know at some stage they lived at 41 Denmark Street . Lancs. Because my Mum lived there. But guess what, that is the only no. that dosen't show up on the street search. How annoying... Do you think my grandfather just didn't fill in the census form.????

Hi,
Dont know whether you remember (9th Dec) I recieved wrong Birth cert for Emma William you advised me to put it on freebmd .I have now managed to do that. so I hope somebody can use it.

Cheers Jean

Thanks for that info.
I have written to my cousin Mary (William Richard Williams) daughter to try to get info on her fathers date of birth. It just might lead me somewhere.

Cheers. Jean

Hi Jean.

I think the address refers to alley sort of things off the street. "Courts", with dwellings, behind the buildings on the street proper. Just what I've gathered from seeing it.

I know you've said William Richard was born in 1902 -- but we haven't found his birth yet, have we?!

But that's what I was thinking -- the William who married Mary Richardson was the son of a Richard, and your William's first son was William Richard. It's a possible clue / matching factor.

My WHW.s oldest son was William Richard , born in 1902.

Can you tell me what 7Court 5 House meant in the address

Looks like the best match for that Mary in1881:


Name: Mary Richardson
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Catherine
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Street address: 7 Court 5 House Clive St
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park

James Richardson 40 - Dock Laborer, born Scotland
Catherine Richardson 45
Jane Richardson 10
Elizabeth Richardson 8
Mary Richardson 5


But 1901 ...

Oh, and father's name Richard fits with your William's son William Richard Williams excellently.

Was WRW your William's first son?

Well here's a household in 1881 who fits that William -- the census was taken in the same month as they married in 1894, so age 7 in 1881 could be slightly off from age 21 in 1894. What was the legal minimum age for marriage?


Name: William Williams
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: Lpool, Lancashire, England


Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
County/Island: Lancashire
Street address: 36 Combermere St

Richard Williams 38 - occupation Labourer
Mary Williams 37
Richard Williams 11
John Williams 10
Margt. Williams 9
William Williams 7
Louisa Williams 6
Mary Williams
John Williams 42
William Lee 25


There is a Bolton Ave in Liverpool now -- google maps satellite view shows it as being mainly carpark, right across from the Lime St station.

Combermere St is a little tiny dead end near Wavertree Park that looks kind of industrial.


The only other possibles in 1881:


6 Ward St, Liverpool:
Sarah Moorhouse 52
Joseph Moorhouse 16
James Moorhouse 14
William M. Williams 7 - grandson

The initial does look like M. And I don't see a Williams-Moorhouse marriage, so he could be the son of an unmarried daughter.


and

Name: William Williams
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Inmate
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
The Industrial Schools Swinton Lancashire


Neither looks too likely.

I have receieved the marriage cert. with the following details.

Marriage. 15th April 1894. William Henry William 21 years old Labourer, Lived 4 Bolton Street, fathers name, Richard Williams, Labourer.

Mary Richardson 18years old, Spinster also lived at 4 Bolton Street,Liverpool, fathers name James Richarson, Labourer.

Not quite sure where Bolton Street was and haven't been able to trace any other info re: their parents or address.
Can anyone offer any help.

Cheers Jean

OK, I have sent for the marriage certificate, so i will let you know if i have any luck.

Cheers Jean

The thing here is, you know what you have been told. You don't know whether it's *true*!!

It could be that Emily or Florrie was a child of Mary Richardson before their marriage. Or of William's from a previous relationship or marriage. Or a sibling's child.

If the dates of birth are from gravestones, I have no idea how they could be 1879 *or* 1880. Does the gravestone not state a *year*??

Information on a gravestone or death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the person who provided it, who may not have had a birth certificate to go on.


I have only found one Flor* Williams in Lancashire born 1896-1901 with parents William and Mary in the 1901 census. I think it's probably already in this thread, but this is the record:

Name: William H Welster
[William H Webster] - I corrected the name last week
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Where born: Matlock, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park

There are Williams children in the household, identified as children of the head:

William H Welster 32 - butcher manager
Mary Welster 36
William J Welster 4
Charles H Welster 6 months
Edith Williams 16
Thomas Williams 9
Annie Williams 7
Florrie Williams 5


They don't resemble your people.


For Emily, we have:

Name: William Williams
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Liverpool

William Williams 30 - coal dealer
Mary Williams 25
Emily Williams 2
Thomson Curry 14
Thomas Mc Donald 48


There's a possibility, if Florrie wasn't born yet. But the William and Mary are older than you are saying. And William's occupation doesn't fit your information.


Something is screwy somewhere! The Williams-Richardson marriage certificate *might* sort things out, if it either confirms something you know or is completely inconsistent with it -- or if it is consistent / inconsistent with a possible household in the 1901 census.

Recenty received my aunts birth cert. (her daughter told me her mum was born in Everton and Grandmothers name was Richardson) , So I applied for the birth cert and it confirmed all the details.

I know their birth/death dates as my sister told me they are on the graves stones. I have checked the death dates out and they are reg West Derby.

I also know for sure they had a son called William (Richard ?) Williams born 1902, Also without any doubt had at least two daughters before 1902 Emily and Florrie. I know this without any doubt.

Cheers
Jean

1890-1910, there are potentially 3 William Williams marriages to Mary Richardson:

Marriages Jun 1894
Williams William Henry Liverpool 8b 234

Marriages Dec 1898
Williams William Chester 8a 693

Marriages Dec 1910
Williams William Easington 10a 777


Only one looks like yours!

Well, it does confuse me -- because people born approx 1879/1880 really just couldn't have married in 1894!

But they also wouldn't likely have had several children before 1903, as you seem to believe they did.

Unless there was a very youthful pregnancy involved, and an early marriage with parental permission or whatever it took. It's possible.

"I do know he was born 6th March 1879/80 and he died 1 March 1951 death reg west derby. his wife Mary Williams (formery Richardson) born 20th March 1880/81 died 10th September 1934 death reg west derby."

That doesn't really make sense. Where are the birth dates coming from? Ages on death certificates, if that's it, might not be reliable.

How long have you had this record of Mary's surname??