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Hi Michelle
I was wondering if you could help me find parents for harriett Burrell, ive found her on the 1901 census with my grt grandparents William & ann Corless.. (cousin) Harriet was brn 1878 Pennington cumbria but im struggling to find her.. any infor you find would be most grateful
thanks
elainex

Hi Michelle,

Is there any chance you would be able to find the parents of George Edward Hensby b.4.12.1903 in Greenwich. His Sisters were Ada and Dorothy (we think), and he married Gladys Mary Ellen Hillman in Greenwich 28/10/1922. We are trying to go back farther than him but are hitting brick walls everywhere.
He had a son George Arthur b.17/04/1923, and two daughters Elsie and Evelyn, born approx 1933 and 1943.

There may be a connection with the Navy, and the family may have had connections in Norfolk but we have no proof of either.

Yours hopefully
Louisa

Anthony

1851 Continued...

1851 England Census
about Emma Perry
Name: Emma Perry
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

1851 England Census
about Joseph T Perry
Name: Joseph T Perry
Age: 7 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

Joseph a Machine Maker

Address Horsebrook


Does that help?

Anthony

1841 Continued....

1841 England Census
about Henry Perry
Name: Henry Perry
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

Joseph a Machine Maker

Address Horsebrook

Children were Joseph's and his wife Sarah

1851 England Census
about Joseph Perry
Name: Joseph Perry
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

1851 England Census
about Sarah Perry
Name: Sarah Perry
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Joseph
Gender: Female
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

1851 England Census
about Eliza Perry
Name: Eliza Perry
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

1851 England Census
about Henry Perry
Name: Henry Perry
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

1851 England Census
about Mary Perry
Name: Mary Perry
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Brewood, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Perry 41
Sarah Perry 38
Eliza Perry 13
Henry Perry 11
Mary Perry 8
Emma Perry 6
Joseph T Perry 7 Mo

Continue...

Anthony

Glad it helped contacting the office.Ok Anthony when did Thomas die?I have found an interesting 1841 looks like the family-without Thomas though.Sophia there and Sarah and Joseph and children-i can follow the children though and see whose children they belong to,as the 1851 might give the answer.I may have already shown you this hard to remember?

1841 England Census
about Sarah Perry
Name: Sarah Perry
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

1841 England Census
about Sophia Perry
Name: Sophia Perry
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

1841 England Census
about Joseph Perry
Name: Joseph Perry
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

1841 England Census
about Sarah Perry
Name: Sarah Perry
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

1841 England Census
about Sophia Perry
Name: Sophia Perry
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

1841 England Census
about Thomas Perry
Name: Thomas Perry
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

1841 England Census
about Eliza Perry
Name: Eliza Perry
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Brewood
Hundred: East Cuttlestone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub registration district: Brewood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Perry 55
Sophia Perry 40
Joseph Perry 30
Sarah Perry 25
Sophia Perry 6
Thomas Perry 4
Eliza Perry 3
Henry Perry 2

Continue....

Hi Michelle

I followed your suggestion on Emma (1819) and Sophia Perry (ca. 1800) and made contact with the Stafforshire Record Office. What came out is as follows.
There is only one Sophia in their Brewood records born in about 1800, and this is Sophia (bap. 20.09.1799) the daughter of Thomas Perry (1764) and Mary (c.1764). She married Joseph Bradshaw (1814) on 11.04.1842 and they had a son Joseph (1842, and possibly pre-marital, not that it matters). Joseph Bradshaw (1842) later married Emma Ward (1843) of Brewood.
Looking at Emma Perry (1819), illeg, daughter of Sarah (eldest child of Thomas and Mary) she married Charles Bate in 1836. Staffs tells me that the marriage details were 'old style' and do not include the parents' names. Going back to the data I had from you, this confirms your findings (I didn't note the date of them). Of the three children listed by Ancestry of the marriage of Thomas and Sarah, only two of them seem to have been were theirs: Emma herself and Joseph (1811). The Sophia listed on the site you use was correctly listed there as the daughter of Thomas Perry and Mary.
I did wonder if it should be read as Emma and Joseph being the children of Joseph (brother of Thomas) and Sarah, so the Sophia listed would actually then be their cousin.

At this point I had an idea and would like your views. You mention that much data on 'Ancestry' comes from interpreting census records. If there is a census record (I guess about 1841) on Thomas (born about 1764 in Brewood and living on Horsebrook) who had married Mary, but she had died meanwhile, then you could get the following:
Thomas (ca. 1764) now a widower
Sarah (ca. 1786), his eldest daughter unwed, but mother of illegitimate daughter:
Emma (1819)
Sophia (1899) youngest daughter of Thomas and Mary (she married in 1842)
And Joseph (not sure but possibly the youngest son of Thomas and Mary).

The record would read as if "Thomas and Sarah" had three children.

What do you make of this?

Anthony

Susan

Looks like Wilfred is a son of Alberts and Esther's-if she was still with him???The birth cert would confirm although 2 records showing

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Wilfred Warburton
Name: Wilfred Warburton
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Ashton Under Lyne
County: Cheshire, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 454 (click to see others on page)

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Wilfred Warburton
Name: Wilfred Warburton
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Ashton Under Lyne
County: Cheshire, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 154 (click to see others on page)

No Willie Gaskell showing or Warburton so i think its William and shortened to Willie on the 1911.I think its poss that Esther died in childbirth??As this child was born same quarter she died.Or maybe their had been complications?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about William Warburton
Name: William Warburton
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Ashton Under Lyne
County: Cheshire, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 521 (click to see others on page)



So i hope that has helped clear things and i expect the image is confusing and relationship to head is marked wrong.They would have written 12 years married so as no to look bad...living in sin.Check the image and let me know i would be interested to know.

Michelle

Susan

Hi there!Not much i can do without looking at the 1911 census and i have no credits left on there at present and it would be the image you would need to look at to see if it had been transcribed correctley.Have you had a look at it?

http://www.1911census.co.uk/registerlogin.aspx

Go to above site and you will need to purchase credits.It take 30 credits to view a census image and 10 for the transcripts but its the image you need to check to ensure it has been transcribed ok and to see the relationships of people in the house.

What is correct if it says they were married for 12 years they were not cos his 1st wife Esther did not die until 1909 and she was with him on the 1901.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
about Esther Ann Warburton
Name: Esther Ann Warburton
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 36
District: Ashton Under Lyne
County: Cheshire, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 328 (click to see others on page)

Looks like he did marry in 1912-although only the cert will confirm this

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Albert Warburton
Name: Albert Warburton
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Surname: Gaskell
District: Ashton Under Lyne
County: Cheshire, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 922 (click to see others on page)

Name Year of Registration Spouse's Surname District County View Image Order Record
View Record
Jane Gaskell 1912 Warburton Ashton Under Lyne Cheshire, Lancashire
View Record

Albert Warburton 1912 Gaskell Ashton Under Lyne Cheshire, Lancashire

Here is Jane and her sister Sarah on the 1901 and they were both single and also you will see no Sarah aged 3 there.So i would presume that Sarah aged 13 on the 1911 is your Sarah Warburton-again you need to look at the image of the 1911 to check this

1901 England Census
about Jane Gaskell
Name: Jane Gaskell
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: Ashton under Lyme Christchurch
Town: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Ashton-under-Lyne
Sub registration district: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Gaskell 26
Sarah Gaskell 31
James Braithwait 19

1901 England Census
about Sarah Gaskell
Name: Sarah Gaskell
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: Ashton under Lyme Christchurch
Town: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Ashton-under-Lyne
Sub registration district: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Gaskell 26
Sarah Gaskell 31
James Braithwait 19

1901 England Census
about James Braithwait
Name: James Braithwait
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: Ashton under Lyme Christchurch
Town: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Ashton-under-Lyne
Sub registration district: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Gaskell 26
Sarah Gaskell 31
James Braithwait 19

Jane a Cotton Cardroom tenter
Sarah-Housekeeper-not domestic own account
James a Cotton Spinning Piercer Worker

Address 14 Jackson Street.

Continue.....

Hi Michelle,
I was given some info ny another member about by great grandad in the 1911 census but soem of the names don't seem to add up.

address is 177 uniom street ashton under lyne lancs.
Albert Warburton b.1876 wrexham denbighshire wales
he was living with Jane Gaskell or was call herself Jane warburton born in ashton.

Also living with them was Sarah Gaskell (sister in law) aged 42

Another Sarah Gaskell aged 13, daughter ( but i know Albert had a daughter called Sarah Warburton)

also living there was Wilfred Gaskell son age 6 and Willie Gaskell son aged 2.

but i don't know whether these are Alberts son's or Jane's or his siter in law..

cheers susan

I just wondered whether the data entered on the census actually says this or if the names have been muddled along the way.

check out my thread on the trying to find warburton page and that will give you info I'd like it just to be double checked

Corinne

I am going to come back to yours either later tonight or tomorrow as i have another brick wall i need to go back too.

Looking so far i reckon it isn't anything to worry about its not unusual for names to be wrong on certs and who knows maybe William's wife had an affair???and William raised him as his son?William is not an easy man to trace back hence why i will come back to it later.

Michelle

HI Again
Sorry have i made a mistake! Benjamin is 38 on the 1911 census not 1901 and his occupation was general labourer, i dont have Doris's birth certificate only her marriage and death ones
THANKS FOR TRYING TO HELP
Chris

Chrissie

Hi there!I hadn't got confused re the kids i knew the 1's you had were all on the 1911 and born after 1901 except Doris who was listed 1900.This is the only family that matches on the records???There are no Benjamin's fitting the info on the 1911?

I am busy but i do not want to wave a white flag yet-if thats ok with you?I am pretty stubborn when it comes to brick walls.

Ok i need to clear a couple of bits i was confused on.....

1) You listed on 1 thread that he was 38 on the 1901 is this correct?
2) Have you any birth certs for the children of the couple?If so what was mother's maiden name?
3) Could you list the occupation he had on the 1911 again please?

Thanks alot.

Michelle

Yes I have my grandads birth cert and she is down as Hutchings and I have Ediths and it is the same. We don't have Lilians unfortunately only the one i ordered which could be dodgey!! My great grandfather Frank burnt all photos and certs after his mum died...which was good of him!!!! So we don't have any other than ones my grandad and great aunt probably re-ordered for ID for themselves. Just think if he hadn't burnt them all it wouldn't be such a mystery!!!!
Thankyou again you're a star!!!
Corinne

Corinne

I presume you have your Grandfather's birth cert?If this lists the parents as Frank Lewis and Annie Louisa Hutchings you have the right marriage as if you also piece the 7 years married listed on the 1911 it is the only marriage between these names on the BMD's.

I am looking at Frank now.

Info on wedding cert as folllows 20th March 1904 Epsom Surrey Frank Lewis 23 years Annie Louisa Hutchings 25 years. Frank a journeyman plumber, no profession for ANnie. Residence for both of them is 5 west street Carshalton Grooms father name John Lewis Brides Albert James Hutchings (deceased) John occupation Butcher....Albert Builder. Witnesses J Lewis and Miss H/M? Grant
Registry office x

Hi Michelle Annie left because she ran off with someone, whilst being a nurse in first world war, the story was it was an old boyfriend of hers. So would be around 1914/15. My great grandfather Frank born 1880 died c1957. He was in 1901 and 1911 a slater/tiler. William his father was a gardener born Teynahm Kent later living Croydon and Bexhill. We wonder if for some reason whether they fell out and he put John down as father on marriage cert. Looking at 1861 census for William I am sure there is a brother called John listed.
as far as the birth cert....it is weird!!!!!! It was hand written so I dont know how Batchelor would have got put on we will definitely see if we can somehow cross check it. I just hope we havent gone on a wild goose chase as i am basing all my info on Annie being the one on this wedding cert, it would be a bizare coincidence that 2 people with those names married in the same year surely!!!! We have no proof of when Annie died. My grandma told my mum that my great aunt had said she had died, so she obviously found her but left no clues!!! I would presume it would have been in the 50s maybe early 60s
Thanks again x x

Hi Michelle
I think weve got a bit mixed up here ! all the children are on the 1911 census the oldest is Doris age 11and the youngest is Alfred,age 1 I dont think thats the same family who you found! On the 1911 census it says Benjamin and Elizabeth were married for 12 years iv tried looking for there marriage but not had any luck, its a tough one is this, iv been trying to track them down for 2 years, i cant understand why there not on the 1901 census, when there on the 1911 one...dont spend to much time on it, im grateful for all your help
Chris

Corinne

What occupation was Franks father "John" listed as being on the marriage cert and also who were the witness names please?

Michelle

Corinne

What did Frank -Annie's husband go on to do occupation wise?Also i am going to check him in a min to see what this John father on cert is all about!!

Have you got his death record?

Michelle

Corinne

I think you should contact the records office re the Lilian birth cert doesn't seem right to me???Looks like they were printing a marriage record and the batchelor part went on your cert???Especially as it is Annie Louisa and also Franks job matching.Looking for Lily in 1904 only this 1 shows but not Croydon,also 1 in 1907

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Lily Lewis
Name: Lily Lewis
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Richmond Sry
County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 502 (click to see others on page)

this is the Croydon 1

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Lily Violet Lewis
Name: Lily Violet Lewis
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Croydon
County: Greater London, Kent, Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 360 (click to see others on page)