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hi michelle i am looking for william archer 1851 census born around 1841 in deptford would like to find his parents he is in the 1861 census married to sarah butcher
many thanks john

Hi Michelle, you're so good at this that I just have to ask another favour!!

I've had some correspondence this week about :

George Alfred Clark born c1871 probably in Middlesex.

I can't find a birth for him in that year on freebmd and not sure on the 1881 because I know so little about him.

Last year (when I wasn't so interested in him but more in his wife) he was shown on the 1901 as living in Edgware Middlesex with wife Adelaide and 2 children - Winifred and Reginald. He was a farm bailiff.

If you could find his birth and/or him on the 1891 I would be extremely grateful. Mind you, I don't know why I should be interested as he deserted his wife in 1903!!!!! Thanks.

n

Hi Michelle

Thanks for all the Crawford info and so quick to respond too. Do you have any thoughts on the Crawford/Walton marriage? I do have the Crawford/WARTON marriage certificate and it definitely shows John's father as a labourer called Robert Crawford. I thought that perhaps James Robinson Crawford was calling himself by his middle name and maybe he had changed his occupation but even though the handwriting is difficult to make out it is definitely Robert and not Robinson.

Regards

Gary

Gary

Poss for Susan

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

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Susanna Rolfe Pedigree
Female


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 MAY 1803 North Wootton, Norfolk, England

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: John Rolfe Family
Mother: Elizabeth

make sure to check up a thread as there is a few more bits there.No luck with James so i suggest you contact Norfolk records office and see if they could look for a baptism for him.Or if you live in the area take a search at the records office.

Michelle

Gary

here are some baptism records for the siblings of John all at King's Lynn All Saints

13/06/1841 Charles Robinson CRAWFORD James Robinson CRAWFORD Mariner Susannah 20/05/1841

11/02/1844 Jane CRAWFORD James Robinson CRAWFORD Mariner Susanna

10/11/1838 John CRAWFORD James Robinson CRAWFORD Mariner Susan

Gary

Just noticed you mention the 1841 so won't post that 1.


Only marriage i can see at mo for the couple is a submitted record-not extracted from the parish records.I will look around online for a parish record.If this record is correct i suspect this could be a 2nd marriage for 1 or both of the couple?Or maybe late marrying?

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

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JAMES CRAWFORD Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: SUSAN ROLFE Family
Marriage: 28 MAR 1836 All Saints, South Lynn, Norfolk, England



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Messages:
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.

Like i say will look to confirm this

Gary

Here is the 1851 which shows John 1838 and his parents Susan and James.

1851 England Census
about James Crawford
Name: James Crawford
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1798
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susana
Gender: Male
Where born: Lynn, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: South Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub registration district: Kings Lynn South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James Crawford 53
Susana Crawford 50
Elizabeth Crawford 14
John Crawford 12
Charles Crawford 10
Jane Crawford 7

1851 England Census
about Susana Crawford
Name: Susana Crawford
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James
Gender: Female
Where born: Wooton, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: South Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub registration district: Kings Lynn South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James Crawford 53
Susana Crawford 50
Elizabeth Crawford 14
John Crawford 12
Charles Crawford 10
Jane Crawford 7

1851 England Census
about Elizabeth Crawford
Name: Elizabeth Crawford
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Susana
Gender: Female
Where born: Lynn, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: South Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub registration district: Kings Lynn South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James Crawford 53
Susana Crawford 50
Elizabeth Crawford 14
John Crawford 12
Charles Crawford 10
Jane Crawford 7

1851 England Census
about John Crawford
Name: John Crawford
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Susana
Gender: Male
Where born: Lynn, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: South Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub registration district: Kings Lynn South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James Crawford 53
Susana Crawford 50
Elizabeth Crawford 14
John Crawford 12
Charles Crawford 10
Jane Crawford 7

1851 England Census
about Charles Crawford
Name: Charles Crawford
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Susana
Gender: Male
Where born: Lynn, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: South Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub registration district: Kings Lynn South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James Crawford 53
Susana Crawford 50
Elizabeth Crawford 14
John Crawford 12
Charles Crawford 10
Jane Crawford 7

1851 England Census
about Jane Crawford
Name: Jane Crawford
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Susana
Gender: Female
Where born: Lynn, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: South Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub registration district: Kings Lynn South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James Crawford 53
Susana Crawford 50
Elizabeth Crawford 14
John Crawford 12
Charles Crawford 10
Jane Crawford 7

James a Mariner

Gary

The marriage that comes up for this time period is this 1.But its Warton!


John Crawford 1858 Bromley Greater London, Kent

Mary Ann Warton 1858 Bromley Greater London, Kent

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about John Crawford
Name: John Crawford
Year of Registration: 1858
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Bromley
County: Greater London, Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 252 (click to see others on page)

this is prob the same 1 you had?I will look for you later Gary as i have to go offline for a while.

Michelle

Hi Michelle,

Just to say thanks for looking for the Hutchisons for me.

Alayne

Hi Michelle

You tried to help me before with a trace for John/Jonathan Crawford but we came unstuck.

Just to recap

Jonathan Crawford was born 6/1/1876 in Orpington, Kent to Jonathan & Mary Ann Crawford. You may remember that I had a couple of certificates where sometimes the Jonathans were listed as John and it all got very confusing.

I ordered the marriage certificate of Jonathan senior believing him to be married to Mary Ann Warton. This had Jonathan snr's father listed as Robert Crawford, Labourer.

From there we came to a dead end.

I have been contacted by another GR member who has Jonathan snr's father listed as James Crawford not Robert. I ordered some more certificates.

1876 Birth Certificate of Jonathan Jnr has his mother as Mary Ann WALTON (father listed as Jonathan)

1860 Birth Certificate of Jonathan Jnr's brother, Alfred has his mother as Mary Ann WALTON (father listed as John this time!!!)

1838 Birth Certificate of Jonathan Snr himself (Listed as John!!) has his father as James Robinson Crawford, occupation Sailor and mother Susan Crawford formerly Rolfe. This seems to be borne out by the 1841 Census which shows a James & Susannah Crawford with a 2 year old John.

So it looks as though I was thrown off the scent by the wrong marriage certificate. I could believe that there was a spelling error between WARTON/WALTON if it were not for the fact that John's fathers name and occupation were inconsistent and the mothers name is spelt WALTON on two separate birth certificates.

My questions for you, if you can help:-

1. Can you find a marriage record for John/Jonathan Crawford to Mary Ann WALTON? As John was born in 1838 I guess this will be c1858 onwards. He was born in Kings Lynn, Norfolk but his first child, Alfred was born in Orpington, Kent. Alfred's 1860 birth certificate lists this as registration district, Bromley, sub-district, Chiselhurst. I would guess John had moved to Kent before he married.

2. Can you get find any more details about James Robinson Crawford or his spouse Susan Rolfe

Hope I haven't confused you with all of this.

Many thanks.

Gary

Patricia

Thanks for info.

Here is John on the 1891 so just prior to marriage living at the address on the 1892 marriage record

1891 Scotland Census
about John Craig
Name: John Craig
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration district: Blackfriars
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 43 Lanark Str
Occupation: Shoemaker
ED: 53
Household schedule number: 113
Line: 23
Roll: CSSCT1891_261
Household Members: Name Age
John Craig 43
Alex Craig 16
Arcd Craig 14
Maryann Craig 12
Katherine McVitie 70

1891 Scotland Census
about Alex Craig
Name: Alex Craig
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: John
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration district: Blackfriars
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 43 Lanark Str
Occupation: Profpoional Singer
ED: 53
Household schedule number: 113
Line: 24
Roll: CSSCT1891_261
Household Members: Name Age
John Craig 43
Alex Craig 16
Arcd Craig 14
Maryann Craig 12
Katherine McVitie 70

1891 Scotland Census
about Arcd Craig
Name: Arcd Craig
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: John
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark Shire
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration district: Blackfriars
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 43 Lanark St
Occupation: Profesional Singer
ED: 53
Household schedule number: 113
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1891_261
Household Members: Name Age
John Craig 43
Alex Craig 16
Arcd Craig 14
Maryann Craig 12
Katherine McVitie 70

1891 Scotland Census
about Maryann Craig
Name: Maryann Craig
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relationship: Daugt
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark Shire
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration district: Blackfriars
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 43 Lanark St
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 53
Household schedule number: 113
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1891_261
Household Members: Name Age
John Craig 43
Alex Craig 16
Arcd Craig 14
Maryann Craig 12
Katherine McVitie 70

1891 Scotland Census
about Katherine McVitie
Name: Katherine McVitie
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration district: Blackfriars
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 43 Lanark St
Occupation: Dom Servant
ED: 53
Household schedule number: 113
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1891_261
Household Members: Name Age
John Craig 43
Alex Craig 16
Arcd Craig 14
Maryann Craig 12
Katherine McVitie 70

Will look for more

Hi
Thanks for all that, did you have any luck with the marrage date for Samuel and Louisa? or a surname, If you could let me know where I could try looking that would be great.
Thanks again for your help.
Tina

Alayne

Hi there.Did take a look but nothing coming up listed under those names sorry.

Michelle

Patricia

What was her age listed as at death?Also as Eliazbeth Reilly can you give me info on her parents etc so i can see her before she married,...might help in finding her.Trouble is Mills and Craig are not uncommon surnames.

On the marriage cert who were the witnesses listed?Was Green Street the address listed on the cert?

Michelle

Patricia

Here is a little about Barnhill

The Poorhouse of the Barony Parish, known as Barnhill, opened in 1850. 'Paupers' who could not support themselves were sent here and were obliged to work at jobs such as bundling firewood, picking oakum (separating tarred rope fibres) and breaking rocks.

The hours were long and the inmates worked unpaid under extremely poor conditions, with harsh discipline and dreadful food. In 1905 the City Parish Poorhouse in Parliamentary Road closed and its inmates went to Barnhill, making it the largest poorhouse in Scotland.

In 1945 it was renamed Foresthall House and Hospital and was thereafter used as an old people's hospital and residential home. It was demolished in the late 1980s and a private housing development now stands on the site.

A view of the buildings and grounds at Foresthall Hospital from the main drive approaching the hospital, 1975. The buildings were erected as an extension to Barnhill Poorhouse in 1904, to provide extra staff accommodation and stables.

The 1904 extension also included the workhouse, sometimes referred to as the "test house". The suitability of applicants for relief was "tested" here - they were set to work at oakum picking, basket-weaving or some other monotonous or onerous task to "prove" they were deserving poor in desperate need for parochial assistance, and not malingerers or other undeserving cases. If they refused to work or proved "difficult", they might be shut up in a special single punishment cell.

The end of the poorhouse system came in 1930 with the repeal of the Poor Law Amendment Act, which had made the poorhouse the only legal source of relief. But it was only with the post-war reforms of the 1940s that the poor law was finally removed from the statute books. Barnhill Poorhouse became Foresthall Hospital in 1945. Under the less severe regime at Foresthall, the "test house" ceased to be a workhouse and was used instead as a venue for IQ tests.


I wonder if this could be Elizabeth??I don't think this is Barnhill though i have tried to google the address but not sure what this address is but this lady is listed as an inmate

1901 Scotland Census
about Elizabeth Craig
Name: Elizabeth Craig
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relationship: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: Camlachie
Civil Parish: Glasgow Camlachie
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 15 Whitevale St
Occupation: Laundry Worker
ED: 22
Household schedule number: 36
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1901_269
Household Members: Name Age
Grace White 29
Maggie Smith 63
Helen Murchie 35
Annie MacIntyre 60
Annie Donald 42
Kate McLaren 29
Mary Thomson 43
Agnes Buchanan 57
Mary Gunn 58
Isa Sim 48
Sarah Ritchie 36
Jessie Brownlie 34
Kate McArthur 24
Jane Dawson 44
Annie Hughes 16
Maggie Artkin 22
Elizabeth Murray 24
Maggie Muirhead 42
Jessie Hogg 40
Elizabeth Christie 42
Maggie Hill 20
Jane Brown 50
Helen Fullarton 61
Elizabeth Deans 34
Agnes Gemmel 45
Agnes Kerr 63
Annie Hall 19
Mary Hutcheson 42
Barbara McFarlane 28
Maggie Gilmour 20
Agnes Notmand 18
Inlia Smith 43
Thomasina Gillies 44
Maggie Ferguson 40
Mary Black 25
Mary Johnstone 45
Mary McKechine 19
Mary Smith 50
Mary Crawford 48
Mary Somerville 27
Lititia Moody 50
Minnie McLaughlan 27
Maggie Thomson 18
Jane Wilkinson 34
Annie Stuart 24
Maggie Davidson 39
Elizabeth Moffat 60
Fanny Bullock 24
Jane Howie 44
Jessie Stuart 21
Bella Grant 19
Kate Lamont 21
Jane Boyd 21
Janet Millar 45
Agnes Drysdale 44
Nellie Mills 41
Annie Dickie 52
Elizabeth Mathison 28
Maggie F Tennant 29
Jane Scotland 24
Ellen Campbell 39
Sarah Campbell 48
Janet Alston 54
Elizabeth Craig 51
Elizabeth Grahame 35
Agnes McGeorge 25
Sarah Beattie 19
Catherine Young 29
Elizabeth O Lane 21
Mary Carrigan 46

Continue.....

Patricia

Sorry they are not showing and if they are on there they are not showing together under the info you have given me.There are 2 poss James Mills but they both lodging and it doesn't state whether they are married.

There are also no Elizabeth Mills showing born in Ireland.These are the results of the search using info you gave me.

Name Parent or spouse names Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relation Civil Parish County
View Record

Elizabeth Mills John abt 1849 Manishant, Ayrshire Wife Glasgow Govan Lanarkshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills Alfred abt 1847 Balsham, England Wife Govan Lanarkshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills Jessie abt 1850 Glasgow, Lanarkshire Daur (Daughter) Glasgow Calton Lanarkshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills abt 1850 Glasgow, Lanark Servant Govan Lanarkshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills John,
Margaret abt 1845 Uddingston, Lanarkshire Daughter Bothwell Lanarkshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills Archibald E,
Elizabeth abt 1845 Edinburgh Daughter Edinburgh St Cuthberts Midlothian
View Record

Elizabeth Mills James abt 1851 Johnstone, Renfrewshire Wife Paisley Abbey Renfrewshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills James,
Ann abt 1844 St Cuthberts, Edinr Daughter Edinburgh St Cuthberts Midlothian
View Record

Elizabeth Mills George abt 1853 Glasgow Wife Paisley Abbey Renfrewshire
View Record

Elizabeth Mills abt 1842 Kirkmaden, Wigtownshire Visitor Penninghame Wigtownshire

Did Elizabeth have a middle name she went by?Do you know of any children the couple may have had?Do you know when they died?

Michelle

Hi Michelle

You are a star doing this for me, I have been tearing my hair out for years over this. I have a marriage cert for Alice Hannah and John Sagar and where the father's name should be it has 'jo' but this is crossed out. Elizabeth Rothwell (nee Ramsbottom) is not my Alice Hannah's mother as she married again in 1880s (I have traced her line). It is interesting the birth you found of Alice Hannah showing her parents as JOHN and SARAH and their first child was SARAH Elizabeth. That was the name that Alice Hannah and John Sagar called their first daughter. My mum has a memoriam card for the death of JOSHUA HEAP so he must tie in somewhere. Will try and find out when JOHN RAMSBOTTOM died, just maybe his wife SARAH was called SARAH ELIZABETH and she went under the name of ELIZABETH. It personally doesn't matter that possible Alice Hannah was illegitimate but I would just love to see her birth cert or baptism record (do you think she would have needed one in order to get married in church) and to confirm whether or not ELIZABETH ever married. This will enable me to trace Elizabeth's ancestors depending if she was a Ramsbottom or someone else. Again I really do appreciate all the help you are giving me. I live in NE of Scotland and rarely ever get back to Lancashire to search records.

Hi Michelle,

Requesting a Look up in Incoming Passengers list for:

Henry Hutchison b 1861 in Mains Strathmartine, Angus
Magaret Hutchison (nee Patrick) b 1864 in Monkie Forfar Angus
Alexander Hutchison b. 04.04 1887 in St Louis Missouri USA
Harry Hutchison b 1888 in st Louis Missouri USA.

Henry & Margaret left Fife, Scotland, after their marriage in January 1887, but returned to Perth area in Scotland before the birth of their daughter Ella in June 1898.

I don't know if you will be able to find them, but apprecaite you looking in to this for me.

Thanks

Alayne

Patricia

Can u give me the names to remind me and the enquiry...so many threads on here.It maybe i looked at yours and was going to return to it?Thanks.

Michelle