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Emily

1891

1891 England Census
about Henry Stone
Name: Henry Stone
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Weston-Upon-Trent, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Stanley
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanley St Andrews
Town: Stanley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shardlow
Sub-registration district: Spondon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Stone 41
Elizabeth Stone 44
Mary Stone 23
William Stone 21
Samuel Stone 16
Elizabeth Stone 12
Tom Stone 10
Lily Stone 8
Emma Stone 6
Joe Stone 4
Frances Stone 2

Big record so will only post children you have not details of...born after 1881

1891 England Census
about Lily Stone
Name: Lily Stone
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Stanley, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Stanley
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanley St Andrews
Town: Stanley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shardlow
Sub-registration district: Spondon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Stone 41
Elizabeth Stone 44
Mary Stone 23
William Stone 21
Samuel Stone 16
Elizabeth Stone 12
Tom Stone 10
Lily Stone 8
Emma Stone 6
Joe Stone 4
Frances Stone 2


1891 England Census
about Emma Stone
Name: Emma Stone
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Stanley, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Stanley
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanley St Andrews
Town: Stanley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shardlow
Sub-registration district: Spondon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Stone 41
Elizabeth Stone 44
Mary Stone 23
William Stone 21
Samuel Stone 16
Elizabeth Stone 12
Tom Stone 10
Lily Stone 8
Emma Stone 6
Joe Stone 4
Frances Stone 2

1891 England Census
about Joe Stone
Name: Joe Stone
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanley, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Stanley
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanley St Andrews
Town: Stanley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shardlow
Sub-registration district: Spondon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Stone 41
Elizabeth Stone 44
Mary Stone 23
William Stone 21
Samuel Stone 16
Elizabeth Stone 12
Tom Stone 10
Lily Stone 8
Emma Stone 6
Joe Stone 4
Frances Stone 2

1891 England Census
about Frances Stone
Name: Frances Stone
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Stanley, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Stanley
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanley St Andrews
Town: Stanley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shardlow
Sub-registration district: Spondon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Stone 41
Elizabeth Stone 44
Mary Stone 23
William Stone 21
Samuel Stone 16
Elizabeth Stone 12
Tom Stone 10
Lily Stone 8
Emma Stone 6
Joe Stone 4
Frances Stone 2

Henry Coal Miner
Mary Mother's help
William and Samuel Coal Miner
Elizabeth a Nurse

Address Stanley Common

Emily

1901

1901 England Census
about Samuel Stone
Name: Samuel Stone
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanley Common, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Heanor
Ecclesiastical parish: Heanor
Town: Heanor
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Ilkeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 175
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Stone 26
Harriet Stone 25

1901 England Census
about Harriet Stone
Name: Harriet Stone
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Samuel
Gender: Female
Where born: Rotherham, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Heanor
Ecclesiastical parish: Heanor
Town: Heanor
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Ilkeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 175
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Stone 26
Harriet Stone 25

Samuel a Coal Miner (below ground)

Address 164 Ray Street

Emily

These are only possible...i can't say they are the correct ones as mother's maiden name wasnt put on records till 1911,so you will need to send for certs to ensure parents are correct ones.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Charles Edward Stone
Name: Charles Edward Stone
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 225 (click to see others on page)

3 Possible Eva's...so you would need to give parents name and ask record office to match record to parents names

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Eva Elizabeth Stone
Name: Eva Elizabeth Stone
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 261 (click to see others on page)

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Eva Stone
Name: Eva Stone
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Belper
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 637 (click to see others on page)

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Eva Lillian Stone
Name: Eva Lillian Stone
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bakewell (1839 Onw)
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 915 (click to see others on page)

2 Harry Stone's for Basford

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Harry Stone
Name: Harry Stone
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 206 (click to see others on page)

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Harry Stone
Name: Harry Stone
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 223 (click to see others on page)

there were others in Belper and other areas but Basford one's are the two above.

2 for Elsie

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Elsie Stone
Name: Elsie Stone
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 254 (click to see others on page)

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Elsie Stone
Name: Elsie Stone
Year of Registration: 1906
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 227 (click to see others on page)

There were again others in other areas of Derbyshire.

Although are you sure about the birthyears...look at this record

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Elsie Stone
Name: Elsie Stone
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Gillott
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 438 (click to see others on page)

Hi MIchelle

Thank you very much, very big family lol

Emily

florence Johnson born 1876 and thomas Warner born 1878 would really like to find out if we came from overseas. thanks jill

Jill

Have you got the marriage cert of 1897?If you havent i would advise you to get it.Thomas is not with Florence on the 1901 as you would know.So we do not have a birthplace for him to trace him back with.There are a few Thomas Warner's born around 1878 he could be any of them.
Another thing to check would be the 1911 census.If the couple are together on that you would have his birthplace.Then tracing back would be easier.London is a big place and not easy to search with no birthplace.

Well i have looked at the 1911...which the site i use hasnt got,so i just had a search with the names you gave me and seen a family that looks like yours living in West Ham.
For 10 credits you can view it and it will show the birthplace of Thomas there.
On the search showed Florence and Thomas and all the children you listed in the same house in West Ham...all ages matched so looks good.I think his birthplace is London.
Have a look and then let me know what the birthplace was listed as?I will then see what i can find in the big city of London!

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/results4.aspx?x=51865155

copy and paste this link into the address bar and it will show you the record i found,if you play around with the children's names with the parents the same family keep matching in West Ham.

Michelle

Micelle,
Thanks for al the hard work on the Watson look up.
It is realy appreciated.
Regards
Angus.

Hi Michelle

I hope that you can help me with some missing 1851 & 1861 Censuses.

I am looking for Henry Sumner and his Wife Esther (nee Dale). In 1841 they were living in Tower Hamlets, Islington, Middx shortly after their marriage in the same year.

I can't find them again until 1871 and 1881 when they are still in Islington.

What I I am really trying to ascertain whether they are the Parents of George Sumner b c1848 in Islington.

In the 'missing years' between 1841 and 1871, George could have been born and then moved out. I have been unable to find a birth record that ties in for George. If Henry & Esther are not his Parents, then I am going down totally the wrong line so it is important that I ascertain whether they are or not.

My only real 'connection' is that on George's marriage cert to Catherine Hoather in 1868, both he and his Father Henry are gas fitters, which is also the occupation of the Henry above in 1871.

Hope you are able to help - thank you in anticipation of trying.

Kristina

Hi Michelle
Would you please look up for me anything on my gt grandparents. Elizabeth Dalligan was my grandmother, her parents' marriage certificate shows Lawrence Dalligan born 1863 Newington and Elizabeth Ann Roberts 1869c Camberwell, his father was Henry Dalligan deceased and her father was William Roberts, a copper plate printer.
Thank you
Sandra

Kristina

Hi i found a possible brother for your George...IF Henry and Esther are the parents:


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Henry Sumner
Name: Henry Sumner
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 20 Feb 1842
Father's Name: Henry Sumner
Mother's Name: Esther Sumner
Parish: St James, Clerkenwell
Borough: Islington
County: Middlesex

And marriage for the parents

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Henry Sumner
Name: Henry Sumner
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Spouse Name: Esther Dale
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Feb 1841
Parish: St Mary
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Charles Sumner
Spouse Father Name: John Dale

Well i have found a 1851 census.I wonder 2 things. Firstly whether your George is infact the 1842 Henry George above?Something to think about.The weird thing about this record is mother Esther is listed as Emma??She may have had the middle name Emma?or maybe her name was listed incorrectly...not the 1st time i have seen that happen!The image is Sumner not Simner

1851 England Census
about Henry Simmer
Name: Henry Simmer
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell

Civil parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Simmer 30
Emma Simmer 26
Henry Simmer 8
Charles Simmer 7

1851 England Census
about Emma Simmer
Name: Emma Simmer
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Henry
Gender: Female
Where born: St Andrews Stolpora is really St Andrews Holborn

Civil parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Simmer 30
Emma Simmer 26
Henry Simmer 8
Charles Simmer 7

1851 England Census
about Henry Simmer
Name: Henry Simmer
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell

Civil parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Simmer 30
Emma Simmer 26
Henry Simmer 8
Charles Simmer 7

1851 England Census
about Charles Simmer
Name: Charles Simmer
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell

Civil parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Simmer 30
Emma Simmer 26
Henry Simmer 8
Charles Simmer 7

Henry a Gas Fitter
Esther a Bookbinder
Writing is not good enough to make address out.

with regards to 1861 i wonder if they were in an area where the pieces are missing for that census?

Missing pieces of the 1861 census
There are a number of enumeration books missing, or parts of enumeration books (usually missing start or finish), from the 1861 census. Below is a list of the books affected that we know of, both those missing in their entirety (M) and those which are incomplete (I) in the National Archives.

145 Middlesex Islington Islington East (2) Islington M
217 Middlesex West London West London North (1) St Bartholomew the Less I
219 Middlesex West London West London South (2) Barnard's Inn M
220 Middlesex London City London City SW (1) St Augustine Watling Street I
229 Middlesex London City London City NE (5) St Christopher le Stock I

Will look more into this and let you know whether i think this is your George's family

Kristina

Here is the possible brother Frederick whom we see on the 1871 census with Henry and Esther's baptism

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Frederick William Sumner
Name: Frederick William Sumner
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 31 Feb 1858
Father's Name: Henry Sumner
Mother's Name: Ester Sumner
Parish: St Thomas, Charterhouse
Borough: Islington
County: Middlesex

Interesting in 1858 listed as being in the Islington Borough baring in mind the 1861 Islington missing piece.

and the birth record

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Frederick William Sumner
Name: Frederick William Sumner
Year of Registration: 1858
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 485 (click to see others on page)

Can i ask you a few questions please?

1) Who were the witnesses to the marriage of George and Catherine(although saw she was listed as Eliza on the site i use?)

2) Can you tell me any of the children that George had and their birthyears and places please

3) Age of George on the marriage cert

4) what census records have you got George on?

Thanks

Also just spoted this record

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Eliza Hoather
Name: Eliza Hoather
Spouse Name: George Sumner
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 Apr 1868
Parish: St Paul
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: John Hoather
Spouse Father Name: Henry Sumner

Will wait to hear from you before i look for more and i will move on for now to next one and get back to yours when you answer above questions.

Michelle

Sandra

What information have you not got on the family?Don't want to post anything you already have.

Thanks

Michelle :)

Hi Michelle

Thank you for all your efforts and finding the 1851 Census.

I found Henry & Esther on the 1861 Census under the name of 'Lunner' this afternoon, having spent since Sunday looking for them.

I now don't think that Henry & Esther can have been the parents of George as he doesn't appear with them on the 1851 or 1861 Census, nor can I find any birth record for him with them as Parents, unless he was also a Henry but called George as you suggest.

The Marriage record you found for George and Eliza is the correct one (must have had a senior moment with the name Catherine, who was one of their Daughters).

1) Witnesses to George Sumner & Eliza Hoather's wedding were George Hoather (Eliza had a Brother called George) and Eliza Sumner (a bit confusing I know)

2) Their children of George & Eliza were :
George b abt 1869 in Islington,
Susannah Eliza Elizabeth (my G G Grandmother) b 1871 in Bermondsey, London/Surrey ,
John b 1873 in Lewes, Sussex (Eliza's home town) ,
Catherine Mary b c1876 in Bermondsey
Alice Gertrude b c1879 in Deptford, Kent

3) George's age on marriage cert is just 'full age'

4) I have the following Censuses for George (& Eliza)
1871 Age 30, living in Bermondsey, born Kingsland (Islington area)
1881 age 39, living in Greenwich, born Islington
1891 age 50, living in Southwark, born Kingsland

I also think I have his death 1897 Q2 St Olave 1d 151 age 56

Sorry for any confusion before with the Henry & Esther connection. Somehow I never felt that it was the right one (although I have seen it on other peoples' trees) but without the 1851 & 1861 Censuses I could not be sure.

So I am now basically looking for George's birth in 1841/1842 and a family to go with him.

Thanks again for your help and if you can shed any further light on George, it would be appreciated.

Kristina

Kristina

Maybe nothing but noticed this marriage between a Henry Sumner and a Eliza...wondered if the Eliza as witness was George's mother?Real longshot but will see if i can find anything.
Was Henry Sumner listed as deceased on the cert?

HENRY SUMMERS Pedigree
Male Family


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZA MILLS Family
Marriage: 08 DEC 1839 Saint Giles Cripplegate, London, London, England



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Hi Michelle

No Henry Sumner is not listed as decd on Marr Cert - in fact I have a hand written transcript from the Hackney Parish Church where George & Eliza were married but the Marr Cert does not show that her Father John was deceased either - it shows him as being a Bricklayer.

19.04.1868
Mr George Sumner, 2nd Son of Mr Henry Sumner of Kingsland to Eliza eldest Daughter of Mr John Hoather, late of Lewes

I have been searching again this evening and I have found a Baptism at West Hackney Church dated 4.7.1841 (which ties in with the Census) for a George Sumner born to a Henry & Kitty Sumner (nee Halfhide - found their marriage too) but, again, cannot confirm that they are related to 'MY' George - can't trace any Census records for 1851 or 1861.


Sorry but you did say you liked brick walls.

Thanks again for your all your help. People like me must drive you mad!!!

Kristina

Kristina

Haven't given up yet!!Must like brick walls hey! Well i think you can count Henry and Kitty out...found baptism's for there children and no George and also a Henry and a Thomas before the year George was born so he would have been 3rd son not 2nd if they were his parents.

Will resume search tomorrow :)

Michelle

Michelle

I did find a Baptism for a George to Henry & Kitty dated 04.07.1841 at West Hackney Church on Ancestry with an address of Kingsland - can't read the road name but couldn't find any further records for him/them so maybe not my George.

Thanks again :)

Kristina

Hi Michelle,
It's Brenda again, with an update got the birth cert for Elvira Jenkins that you helped me find last week. Her parents are William Jenkins and Margaret Jones. she was born 31 Oct 1871 in Maesteg, Bridgend, Glamorgan at Pit Street. her father was a tin daubler?? If you got time can I ask you to look for her parents on the 1871 census I know this is going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack as I have no idea if there were children before Elvira and she wouldnt be on the 1871 census. I have looked for suitable marriages these are listed below:
1865 Neath, 1869 Neath, 1869 Merthyr Tydfil. These are all in the area where Elvira was born.
I have checked births and there are quite a few for William Jenkins and Margaret but no surname. I found 1 child in Maesteg a Thomas b 1867. Dont know if this could be thiers before Elvira but he's not on the 1881 census, they have another Thomas on there born 1879.
The only info on William and Margaret is what I have from the 1881 census is that he was about 35 years old and a roller in iron works and born in Carmarthen, and Margaret is 32 years old and born in Cardiff both Glamorganshire.
I'm sorry to be such a pain asking for help again but I really am stuck on this one again.
I'm in no rush as I know you are busy at the moment.
Many thanks Brenda x

Hi Michelle
Ref earlier messages I am trying to go back further on Andrew Dalligan, my gt grandfather born Tipperary and his wife Elizabeth Magner from Co Cork. I know from 1871 census that there were two children, Lawrence Dalligan, born 1863 Newington, my gt grandfather and also Amrah Dalligan. I only have the marriage certificate of Lawrence and Elizabeth Ann Roberts and Lawrence's birth certificate.
Thanks for any help,
Sandra

Hi Michelle thanks for the info, the family does match up. Have no marriage cert for Thomas and Florence married 1897. I have paid £9.00 on this site but its rubbish. I also paid £5.00 for 50 credits didnt get very far. Every where i try to look its money to take a look. I have paid £7 for my grandads birth cert (James Charles Warner) in the hope thomas is on it so that i can confirm he is definately the father. My mum always wondered what happened in his family as my grandad left home at an early age and slept rough on the railways. Have you paid a subscription to look up all this info for people or am i doing somthing wrong?? Help!!