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no evie as i didnt get past not finding him
oh yes and just realised you dont have his death date which is 19th march 1932 which may help narrow his birth down when taken with his marriage date.
also the only snippet i have on his mother is that she was thought to be a teacher of some sort but then that be made up as well of course

To 1901 ... this looks like the John in question:

Name: John Gardiner
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Brother-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Paddington, London, England
Occupation: Laundry (dolly man)

Civil Parish: Willesden

Thomas Tibby 35
Anne Tibby 34 -- Ann/Nancy Gardiner?
Ernest Tibby 8
Thomas Tibby 6
Edith Tibby 2
Amy Tibby 4
John Gardiner 20


And here's the stroke of luck:

Name: Thomas Tibby
[Thomas Pike]
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne
Where born: Northamptonshire, England
Occupation: Boot maker

Corrections for Thomas Tibby - 1901 England Census
Surname: Pike
Correction Type: Incorrect Original
Explanation:
The Pike family live at this address in 1901 all the given names for the parents match the names on a birth certificate for Edith Pike born 1898.
Contributed By: Jelindrawolfheart
Contributed On: 21/01/2007

And for daughter Edith:

Corrections for Edith Tibby - 1901 England Census
Surname: Pike
Correction Type: Incorrect Original
Explanation: The family name is Pike, **Anne Gardiner married Thomas Pike** and had Edith pike in 1898.


This Ancestry subscriber may know about John Gardiner, brother of Anne Gardiner who married Thomas Pike.

That is, you could contact her and possibly rule him out or in as your John Gardiner.

So Bruce -- have you considered this one before? ;)


Eliza, sister of John and Alfred, in 1871 (I mistakenly said 1881 at first):

Name: Eliza Gardiner
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Paddington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Paddington

Emily Shepheard 45
Eliza Gardiner 14

Who is

"Informant - T. Coward - son in law"

re John's death? Husband of a daughter, or of a stepdaughter ...?


Ah - husband of a stepdaughter? There are these births around that time in West Ham:

Births Mar 1929
Coward Rose E Hackett W.Ham 4a 181
Births Jun 1930
Coward Thomas J Hackett W.Ham 4a 221

Yes, here we are, went at it backwards:

Marriages Dec 1927
COWARD Thomas J Hackett W.Ham 4a 307
HACKETT Alice M Coward W.Ham 4a 307

So no help there then ...

i have been on many many wild goose chases looking for him so one more wont really matter if it turns out that way
thank you again for trying to help

This would be the birth of the John Gardiner we're looking at:

Births Jun 1881
GARDINER John Kensington 1a 7


One month old in the census, registered the quarter after birth.

John who died in March 1932 was 51. That matches with a birth in March 1881, if he had just had his birthday when he died.

Undoubtedly two dozen other John Gard(i)ner births would match too, of course!

The marriage of that couple:

Marriages Sep 1852
> Carr Eliza Kensington 1a 193
> GARDINER Edward Kensington 1a 193
Keegan Jane Kensington 1a 193
TWITCHETT Alfred Kensington 1a 193


In 1861:

Edward Gardiner 31 (Farrier, and in 1871)
Eliza Gardiner 25
Eliza Gardiner 4
Henry Gardiner 2 Mo
Catherine Carr 71


I'm wondering about daughter Eliza, and whether she isn't more likely to be the mother of John. Mother Eliza in this household was 46-47 when this John was born. There's a bit of an interruption between the child aged 12 and the children aged 7 and under in 1881. In 1875, when Alfred was born, daughter Eliza would have been 18.

Now we all know this could be a totally wild goose chase!

thank you for the reply
i have wondered over the last few months of not being able to trace him whether he had invented a father or not and was begining to give up hope of ever getting anywhere but your reasoning sounds like i will have to send for that birth cert to see what it says.

A possibility for the marriage of those parents:

Marriages Dec 1863
Gardiner Edward James Pancras 1b 62
PORT Elizabeth Louisa Pancras 1b 62
Stevens Thomas Pancras 1b 62
Wright Harriett Pancras 1b 62

Edward *James*.


No -- in 1871:

Edward Gardiner 39
Eliza Gardiner 34
Henry Gardiner 8
Emily Gardiner 5
Anne Gardiner 2 (Nancy in 1881)
Catherine Carr 80 - "mother"

...

1881:

Name: John Gardner
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Eliza
Where born: Paddington, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Paddington

Edward Gardner 52 - Parish Laborer, born Paddington
Eliza Gardner 46 - born ... I can't read it
Henry Gardner 16 - Plumber, born Paddington
Nancy Gardner 12
William Gardner 7
> Alfred Gardner 5
Joseph Gardner 2
> John Gardner 1 month


That must be the two boys in the orphanage in 1891.

Also in the orphanage in 1891:

Name: Alfred Edward Gardiner
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Pupil
Gender: Male
Where born: Paddington, London, England


If he's an older sibling, tracking him back might find something ...

Hmm. When in doubt, look in the orphanage?


1891:

Name: John Gardiner
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Pupil
Gender: Male
Where born: Paddington, London, England

Civil Parish: Hammersmith
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: London
Registration district: Fulham

ED, institution, or vessel: Kensington and Chelsea District Branch School


Orphanage to the sea would be a not uncommon trajectory. And being orphaned early is also one explanation for confusion about surname spellings.

If that were him, it could mean that his parents both died young, or he was born to an unmarried mother who died or was unable to care for him. Leaving the question of his father's name somewhat open in both cases -- if orphaned young, he may not have known, and just invented one; if born to an unmarried mother, he may not have known, or the given name could be correct but the surname his mother's ...

no that wasnt him and i still have not found him despite spending a fortune on 1911and many more hours on ancestry and of course the main problem is that i have no idea WHERE he was born
any ideas help please?
thank you

scratch that ,think i just found it
carrie

I have found a john gardfner[mistranscribed] born 1879 st george in the east london on 1901 as crew on illustrious in malta but,
no naval records showing on nat archives for him
what can i try next please
thank you
carrie

Hello - yes its confusing as its Gardner for his death, Gardiner for his marriage - & its spelt all 3 ways for his 7 children!!

Im not sure if he had a middle name as theres none on the marriage or death certs.


Im trying to find out if I can access burial records for any further info on him, as i know he was buried at Woodgrange Cemetery, Manor Park, West Ham

thanks all

Possible death for Harriet:

Deaths Mar 1909 (>99%)
GARDNER Harriett Mary 36 Edmonton 3a 374 Scan available - click to view


This is all complete conjecture ...

So he was John Gardiner not Gardner according to the marriage record
Name: John Gardiner
Year of Registration: 1911
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 568

spouse Florence Hackett

Could this have been 1st wife? - I know it's a longshot ...

Marriages Sep 1903 (>99%)
COOMBS Harriett W. Ham 4a 95 Scan available - click to view
Gardiner John Charles W. Ham 4a 95 Scan available - click to view

I have a death cert for my G Grandad John Gardner, age at death 51, died at 5 Kings Road, East Ham, Essex in March 1932. Occupation Dock Labourer.
Informant - T. Coward - son in law
I have his 2nd marriage (he was a widower) cert dated 3rd april 1911 to Florence Hackett in West Ham, age 31 years, address 5 Kings Road, East Ham (got 1911 census & only florence in residence due to the fact it was the day before their wedding!)
Fathers name James Gardiner (deceased by 1911) occupation Sailor.
Witnesses names are of no help because they are ''Lambs'' & on the 1911 census at 5 kings road.
Johns occupation Dock Labourer.

Any help to find him anywhere before 1911 as have searched until Ive pulled my hair out!
Thanking anybody in advance for any help
Thanks
Carrie