Find Ancestors

i will certainly send a message to them making enquiries

Edith Pike 1898 Willesden is in the trees of two Peters and a Jenna here at GR.

"you dont have his death date which is 19th march 1932"

So yes -- if he was a month old at the 1881 census, and was born say in Feb or early March 1881, that would fit with age 51 at death.

and age 31 on marriage?sorry but im rubbish at maths

One clarification --

"its Gardner for his death, Gardiner for his marriage - & its spelt all 3 ways for his 7 children!!"

-- these are all children from his second marriage, is that it?

just to say that if they had not been so inconsiderate as to marry the day after the census but the day before you would not be having all this bother from me as i could possibly have tracked his wife florence instead
or even if they had spent the night in the same place prior to the marriage
surley he cant have been far in 1911 from his wife to be on the eve of his marriage but i am unable to locate him close to the address she was at and they lived at after
the house is still in the family to this day and no clues there as i have looked when visiting my uncle

second marriage yes and some of those children took some tracking with all the spellings

"3rd april 1911 to Florence Hackett in West Ham, age 31 years"

Hm.

If he was

31 on 3 April 1911

then he would have been 52 on 3 April 1932.

It would work if he was born 20 March 1880 to 3 April 1880.

Just turned 31 when he married, about to be 52 when he died.

To be 31 on 3 April 1911, he would have been born 4 April 1879 (about to be 32) to 3 April 1880 (just turned 31).

To be 51 on 19 March 1932, he would have been born 20 March 1880 (about to be 52) to 19 March 1881 (just turned 51).

So the overlap is 20 March 1880 to 3 April 1880.

Which would make him a year older than the John I've been looking at.

But ... his age on the marriage cert might not have been accurate ... ;)

How old was Florence Hackett when they married?

Florence's daughter Alice M Hackett married Coward in 1927.

Get her marriage certificate, it will tell you Florence's husband's name (Alice's father), you can find Florence's first marriage.

Are her existing children not with her in the 1911?


This is the only likely-looking birth for Florence's daughter Alice, 1901 to 1909:

Births Dec 1905
Hackett Alice Maud W. Ham 4a 296

But wait. Florence Hackett was her married name? Was I right about that, and that the Hackett-Coward marriage was her daughter Alice?

Does the marriage certificate not state her birth surname, in that case?

florence age 25

alice maud known as maud ,correct.brought up by her grandparents after marriage to john

But was Florence married to a Hackett, or was Alice Maud born to her when she was unmarried?

It sounds more like the latter, if she went to her grandparents ...

florence hackett nee? only had the one child [alice maud]in that marriage and florence only had hackett on the 2nd marriage if i remember correctly but can check it later

she was down as widow on 1911 census and on marriage to john
edit ,and im pretty sure she had been married

thank you for all this help but i have to go now as my eyes are tired,please leave any questions you want answered ,on one post if poss, and i will get all certs out tomorrow that i have and answer them all to the best of my ability
and thank you again
carrie

The two boys in the orphanage in 1891:

Births Jun 1876
GARDINER Alfred Edward Kensington 1a 15

Births Jun 1881
GARDINER John Kensington 1a 7


Just to tie them up.


If your John's age was correct on both marriage and death certificates, he had to be born late March 1880-very early April 1880. Likely registered apr-may-jun 1880.

There's only one John Gardiner anywhere in the vicinity Jun Q 1880: John William in Brentford.

There's also John Richard Mar Q 1880 in St. Olave.

However, we have no idea where your John was born.

And that's because you can't find him in the 1911!!!

one of his sons was named alfred if that helps but i will give all childrens names later and all info from certs that are in my possession tomorrow
and will search more on 1911 also as i now know how to use the wildcard which is not a wild card at all really ,just a neat way of getting round it

Well, I did get hung up on just one candidate in 1891. ;)

Even on my orphan theory, there are a couple of others who would be interesting.

Then there are the old standbies -- his father had died and his mother (re)married by 1891, and he's in the censuses under the stepfather's surname. James was his father's name, or his stepfather's name. Etc.

Life would be no fun without them!

Speaking of Alfreds ...

1901:

Name: James Gardner
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Boarder
Where born: West Ham C Town

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Essex
> Address: 9 Poplar St.

Thomas Alloston 27
Jane Alloston 25 - see censuses below - this would be Jane Gardner, sister of the Gardners
Hanns Alloston 4 (Thomas)
George Alloston 6 months
Steve Gardner 40 - single, dock labourer
James Gardner 36 - ditto
Alfd Gardner 25 - ditto


Those could be some really rounded ages, and these could be Steve and Alfred in 1881 in West Ham at 10 Saburton St:

James Gardner 48 - gen lab
Jane Gardner 46
Jane Gardner 9
Alfred Gardner 12
Stephen Gardner 26 - dock labourer

James??


Mmm hmm.

Household in 1891 at 9 Poplar St.:

James Gardner 64 - Engine driver
Jane Gardner 53
Stepha Gardner 33 - Labourer
James Gardner 26 - ditto
Alf Gardner 19 - ditto
Jane Gardner 16

Not big on age accuracy.


Well, it's got some names in common. And where is this James in 1881?

here is all as i know it

John Gardiner
death: 19th March 1932 age 51
job: at least from 1911 to 1932 Dock Labourer
Marriage: 3rd april 1911 to Florence Hackett (was Blackwell before her 1st marriage) John aged 31, florence 24. Down as living at 5 kings road but on census florence (and her daughter ALice Maud) are at 5 kings road as visitors. The Lamb family are the main family living there (who are the witnesses at the marriage).

John & Florences' children:
1911: Elsie F
1913: John G
1917: William James Arthur
1920: Alfred Leonard
1922: Gladys May
1925: Rosie Lillian

some children have Blackwell as mothers maiden name, some have Hackett

Only other snippets of info i have about his family is 2 brothers ,no names
His mother did something along the lines of school mistress/teacher but I dont know when in her life.

carrie