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Thanks LFW

Need a miracle worker.It is astonishing that I am having so much trouble.

I would not know how to begin do the cenus mapping as you suggest - bit beyond my capability, I fear..

Hopefully the latest birth cert will be here on Friday, although I now have my doubts as to whether or not it will be the right one .......

Hi Nicki

I didn't get much chance last night to have a proper look (had to repair a PC) but the 1861 you originally had is the only one I can see with the correct occupation. It's possible William had different occupations through his life, it's also possible that he never existed and was a fictitious father. The only other way I can think of is to trace the other Emma Foxs' through the census. If you can map their lives it may help to prove you have the correct one. It's a painstaking job but could pay rewards :-) Another thing I noticed is that William and Emma had a daughter Caroline, named after her grandmother perhaps!

Will keep looking and see what I can find :-)

Regards
LfW

Thanks for that Christine.

Still no real answers, did not think thid was going to turn out to be so difficult.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Nicki

The Emma above ties her into your family in 1871, she would have been Emma Tapping's niece actually, but only niece by marriage to the head of house William, so possibly could have been put as a servant.

It's all very confusing isn't it but that's all I have been able to come up with.

Christine

Super Sleuths required ................!! I have absolutley no idea.

I can see I am going to have an excess of Emma Fox birth certificates !!

Nicki

Hi Nikki,

I agree the occupations don't seem right for Willaim but I have just been looking at the details of the Emma Fox who was with your William and Emma Tapping in 1871.

She was born Plimlico and here she is in 1861, her father was born Norfolk, is this just coincidence or what?

1861 England Census

about Emma Fox
Name: Emma Fox
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Pemlico, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub registration district: Christchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 401
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Fox 1
Emma Fox 5
James Fox 27 born Pensthorpe, Norfolk
Mary Ann Fox 26

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 82; Folio: 92; Page: 63

This James is probably the one in the family I have posted earlier.

1871 England Census
about Emma Fox
Name: Emma Fox
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul

There is also this birth reg which could be your Emma, as the area covers Chelsea

Births Sep 1846 (>99%)

FOX Emma Kensington 3 326


Maybe I'm confusing matters even more, lol

Christine

Have just ordered the
Mar 1843 Chelsea birth of Emma Elizabeth Fox.

Nicki

Thanks Christine.

Not sure what to make of the occupation issue though?

Anyone else have any views?

Nicki

Finally the family in 1841

1841 England Census
about Mary Fox
Name: Mary Fox
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: Chelsea
Hundred: Ossulstone (Kensington Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Chelsea North East
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Fox 42 labourer
Mary Fox 31
William Fox 11
Edward Fox 9
James Fox 6
John Fox 4
Mary Fox 3
George Fox 10 Mo


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 687; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Chelsea; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 24; Page: 43; Line: 12;

Christine

I may have found them as there is a Robert and Mary ann Fox also in this family but occ of William doesn't tie in with marriage cert.

See what you think

1851 England Census
about Emma Fox
Name: Emma Fox
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: Upper Chelsea St Saviour
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub registration district: Chelsea North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 323
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Fox 19
Emma Fox 5
George Fox 10
James Fox 16
John Fox 14
Mary Fox 40 Norfolk
Mary Ann Fox 13
Robert Fox 7
Samuel Fox 1

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1474; Folio: 83; Page: 76;

1861 England Census
about Mary Fox
Name: Mary Fox
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Pensthorpe, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Chelsea St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
Town: Chelsea
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub registration district: Chelsea North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 366
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Fowles 63
<<<<Amma Fox 15
George Fox 20
Mary Fox 51
Robert Fox 17
Samuel Fox 9
William Fox 62 carpenter's labourer
George Sparling 72

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 38; Folio: 59; Page: 58;


Same family in 1871

1871 England Census
about William Fox
Name: William Fox
Age: 74
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1797
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Bilingford, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub registration district: Chelsea, North-East
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 229
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Fox 61
Robert Fox 27
Samuel Fox 19
William Fox 74 occ horse or house cooper


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 89; Folio: 91; Page: 31

Christine

Hi Nicki

Until you can prove the 1861 I would discard it for now as it doesn't match the info you know. All the later census that you know are Emma (when she's with William Tapping) give her pob as Chelsea. I think you need to try to find her on the 1861 and then work backwards. It could be the 1861 is correct but before you go further you need to prove it or you may follow the wrong family.

Will take a look tonight if no one else has found her :-)

Regards
LfW

Nudged for further help please.....


Thanks Christine & LFW

On the 1861 (assuming it is right ...........??)

FOX, Emma Daughter F 14 1847 Seamstress
Clerkenwell

Nicki

The family posted above, Emma the mother is married to a William in 1841 but occ is shoe m.

Christine

Possible, but as theirs been no mention of a middle name it may help to rule out the 1851 census or she may have dropped the middle name.

Births Mar 1843 (>99%)
Fox Emma Elizabeth Chelsea 3 43

Which census does she give Clerkenwell as pob, I've found her:

1871 - b1843 Chelsea
1881 - b1849 St Geo Hanover Sq
1891 - b1847 Chelsea
1901 - b1846 Chelsea

Regards
LfW

Based on what was on the 1861 I also ordered what I thought was Emma's birth certificate

Births Jun 1846
Fox Emma Clerkenwell 3 109
However ..............
Parents are:
Charles Fox & Agnes Hill

So, on top of everything else, I am unable to pin down a birth for Emma.

Nicki

Can't see an Emma with father William but their is this one. 1871 has pob as Chelsea


1851 England Census about Emma Fox
Name: Emma Fox
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Female
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Battersea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub registration district: Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Emma Fox 31
Emma Fox 8
George Fox 12
Rebecca Fox 14

Hi Nikki,

Been reading through all this again and maybe your 1861 isn't wrong as the father is Henry W and a housepainter.

Could he have been using his middlename of William on the marriage cert?

Still can't find them in 1851 though.

Christine

Hi LFW

Helpfully .... (or not)

Full age!!

Nicki

Hi Nicki

What age is Emma on the marriage cert?

Regards
LfW

Thanks for the nudge Crystal.

Really need some help folks. I am trying to do a family tree portrait/presentation as a gift for my father-in-law for his 80th birthday on 22 November, so I have about 3 weeks or so to tie up the loose ends.

Really appreciate if someone can help.

Thanks
Nicki