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Hi Joanne

Is there any possibility that Caroline may have remarried between 1891 and her death? There are a few Caroline Matthews marriages in London on Free BMD...

Thanks Helen.

It is a possibility, however, John Matthews WWI pension records show that his next of kin was Caroline Matthews. That was September 1898. and the pension records show that she died 31/01/1899.

I have looked at the marriages and the possible surnames that she would have had if she had married, but none match up with a death in March q of 1899.

Joanne.

Trying to think of another angle here regarding the dad Henry (or Frederick).

Is is possible to look up electoral rolls for the addresses you have on the birth certificates for the children?

Also for the electoral roll for Caroline's address in 1891 and after.

If you have a google, it should be fairly easy to find out which London Borough/Council the areas fall under i.e. Islington or Tower Hamlets etc. Perhaps you could consider sending the archives section an email asking if they could look up the electoral roll for you for the years and addresses of the children's birth certificates, to see who was registered at that address.

That was a good idea from Helen, I had a female ancestor who remarried in 1879 and died 1880 following childbirth.

Let me know if you get stuck finding out which council it comes under.

Selena

Also who are the witnesses on John's marriage certificate in 1901?

I was looking at the address they were at in 1891 and also where Henry was born and think they are quite close together.

I wonder if we could find the area in 1881 where Henry was born to see if they were around there but mistranscribed.

I have to go out now but will take a look later.

Christine

The witnesses on John's marriage certificate were Mary Ann Payler, who was his wife's sister, and Michael B Megilley, who was living in the same street in Leeds as Mary Ann Payler. I don't think he is anything to do with the family.

Where would the poll books be kept? i.e. who would be able to look up the records for me?

Joanne.

I know the age is wrong but it is worth seven pounds?

Deaths Mar 1899
Spiller Caroline 68 Kensington 1a 75

Just wondering if the family could have been in a workhouse or similar institution in 81 and are perhaps listed under their initials only.

I've already got that death certificate.

Caroline Spiller died 13/01/1899. Informant was Jane Gray (daughter). Widow of Henry Spiller.

Joanne, you would need to contact the relevant local council family history archives for that area

I think Hackney council covers Shoreditch?

Hackney Archives
43 De Beauvoir Road
N1 5SQ
Email: [email protected]
Tel: 020 7241 2886
Fax: 020 7241 6688


Hackney Archives Research Service

If you are not able to visit the Archives in person, a comprehensive paid research service is available. We cannot guarantee that this will always produce a positive result, but our researcher has full access to the collection and will also advise on records relevant to the enquiry held in other repositories, although searches cannot be undertaken into collections held elsewhere.

These include UK postage rates and (if appropriate) up to ten copies of documents per half hour of research. Report writing and all other work involved in the research will be included in the cost of the search fee.

Fees are payable in advance. For more information on this service the Research Service leaflet can be downloaded from the right of this page.

Please use the Research Service form to make your request but contact a member of the Archives staff before sending in the form to check whether we have the relevant sources

here is the link for the reseach leaflet

http://www.hackney.gov.uk/research_service.htm

Thanks Selena.

OK, I think I'm officially going mad now.

I found Caroline, Henry and John Matthews on the 1891 census mistranscribed as Mathews, but now I can't find them!

Can anyone else?

Got them. Sorry, I think I am definitely going mad.

Joanne, quickly post them please!!!!

I thought we already had Caroline!! I am pulling my hair out here

I think the way forward would be to find out who was living at 9 Hull Street in 1898/1899.

John joined the army in 1898 and gave his next of kin as Caroline Matthews living at 9 Hull Street, City Road. This is in Holborn.

On the WWI pension record it states that Caroline died 31/01/1899, but as there is no death record for her, I wonder if she was living with someone else (who she hadn't married as I can't find a marriage for her either) and her death has been registered under his surname.

I don't think that marriage was important to Caroline, as I can't find a marriage to Henry Matthews either.

The problem I can see with looking on the electoral roll is that women weren't allowed to vote in 1898/1899, so she wouldn't be listed, would she? Also, am I right in thinking that only men with means were allowed to vote in those years, and as she was living in a poor area, would her other half be registered either?

Joanne.

1891 England Census
about Caroline Mathews
Name: Caroline Mathews
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Finsbury, London, England

Civil Parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Holborn
Sub registration district: Whitecross Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Caroline Mathews 37
Henry Mathews 9
John Mathews 12


View
Original
Record

View original image

So are we looking for a different year of death for Henry?

What is his age and place of birth on the 1891?

Sorry Selena, I think I'm confusing you here.

Yes, we already had the family on the 1891 census, I just couldn't find it again.

The Henry on the 1891 is Caroline's son, who is living with his uncle Henry Spiller on the 1901.

Caroline is shown as a widow on the 1891 so we know that Henry registered his son's birth 31/03/1883 and he had died by 1891, but can't find the family on the 1881.

Hope this makes sense.

Oh I totally misread that. I thought you found Henry the dad with the family on the 1891.

Don't know about voting, my book by Anthony Adolph is a bit confusing.

Think I'll try asking on a new thread.

Joanne, I was thinking that you could look up Henry the dad, rather than Caroline. Henry registered one of the births didn't he and you have that address.

Electoral roll is searchable only by address.