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Name: John Logan
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1878
Age: 39
Document Year: 1917
Residence Place: 23 Gomer Street, Liverpool
Regimental Number: 347536
Regiment Name: Labour Corps
Form Title: Proceedings on Discharge
Name Relation to Soldier
John Logan Self (Head)
Mary Catharine Logan Wife

Served for 108 days - discharged as medically unfit

Name: Franciscus Logan
[Francis Logan]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 25 Sep 1906
Baptism Date: 3 Oct 1906
Baptism Place: St Joseph's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Joannis Logan
Mother: Mariae Catharinae Mcguire
Address: 10 Peover Street


Name: Petrus Logan
[Peter Logan]
Gender: Male
Age: 0
Birth Date: 15 May 1910
Baptism Date: 18 May 1910
Baptism Place: St Francis Xavier's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Joannis Logan
Mother: Mariae Logan


Name: Thomas Logan
Age: 0
Birth Date: 14 Oct 1902
Baptism Date: 26 Oct 1902
Baptism Place: St Joseph's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Joannis Logan
Mother: Mariae Magure
Address: 3, St Anne's Buildings

Name: Thomas Logan
Death Age: 5/12
Birth Date: abt 1902
Death Date: 1903
Burial Date: 5 Apr 1903
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Name: Joseph Logan
Age: 0
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1908
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Death Date: Sep 1908

Name: Joseph Logan
Death Age: 0
Birth Date: abt 1908
Death Date: 1908
Burial Date: 24 Aug 1908
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Name: Daniel Logan
Age: 0
Birth Date: 25 Dec 1904
Baptism Date: 3 Jan 1905
Baptism Place: St Joseph's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Joannis Logan
Mother: Maria Catharina Maguire
Address: 3, St Anne's Buildings

Name: Daniel Logan
Death Age: 3/12
Birth Date: abt 1905
Death Date: 1905
Burial Date: 21 Apr 1905
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

LOGAN, FRANCIS MAGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1912 D Quarter in BLACKBURN Volume 08E Page 508
LOGAN, JOSEPH MAGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 69
LOGAN, PETER MAGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1910 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page
LOGAN, DANIEL MAGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1905 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 82

Have you looked for/found John’s birth? (Use the GRO site) And if he was indeed 12 in 1921, where was he in 1911? Where were the parents?

Hi Argyle/Gran

That’s what I was thinking, my dads middle name was his confirmation name that he only added to his signature in adult life .
I’m just hoping the plot doesn’t thicken…again lol
I will add what I find when I receive the birth certificate.
.
John is a mystery as though I know my grandparents lost a few babies before my dad I didn’t know an older one had survived.
There were two others born after him Michael and Mary Frances but they both died young.

Shame I could never get to trace him before he died but at least he will have his place as will Lucy and the girls

Kind regards

Pam

There is no birth of a Francis Paul (or Francis P) Logan in England/Wales 1910-15.

The only Francis Logans born in that time-span are your Francis in Blackburn; a Francis Sidney in 1910 in Chorlton; a Francis Anthony in 1913 in Blackburn; and a Francis Leo in 1915 in Sheffield.

Your Francis is the only one whose birth registration could fit with Francis Paul's DOB of 4 Oct 1912.

Paul could perhaps have been a name added at baptism.

First of all I do apologise for not attaching the household in 1921
I’m sorry I wasn’t online to answer any questions before now but my disability is a master of my energy and pain so please forgive my absence.

The reason I know the parents used different forenames is I found the Francis born Blackburn quite a while ago and phoned the local register where the lady kindly told me that birth had parents with different Foote names to my grandparents so I didn’t bother getting the certificate.
As you can see Francis is there listed as son living with his mother (my grandmother), her mother, son Peter (my father) and another baby named John.

Mary Catherine Logan. Head. 36.8mths. F. Married. Born Liverpool. Lancs
Peter Logan. Son. 11.1mth. Born Liverpool ……….
Francis Logan Son. 9.8ths. Born. Blackburn …….
John Logan. Son. 12. Born Liverpool. …….
Mary Maguire. Mother 67.8mths. Widow. Born Cumberland.

I was so excited finding Francis I didn’t realise there was another son John!
My father never spoke of his family I only knew of his parents and Francis through my mother mentioning them and telling me their names.

I can’t thank you all enough for showing interest in my finding and I cannot say if the Francis Paul is the right one only that Paul was not a family name.

Kind regards

Pam

Ancestry suggests this is the Francis born in 1912 Blackburn:

Francis Logan
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Francis Logan
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 4 Oct 1912
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 11 Bridson Street
Residence Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Confectioner (Cake Maker
Line Number: 2
Schedule Number: 185
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: NHEA
Borough: Liverpool
Registration district: 453-2.
Inferred Spouse:
Lucy Logan
Household Members Age
Francis Logan 27
Lucy Logan 21 - 11 Feb 1918
[and one closed record ]

Francis P Logan
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Francis P Logan
Registration Date: Apr 1937
[May 1937]
[Jun 1937]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Lucy Williams
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 237


Francis Paul Logan
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Francis Paul Logan
Death Age: 79
Birth Date: 4 Oct 1912
Registration Date: Oct 1991
Registration District: Liverpool
Inferred County: Merseyside
Volume: 36
Page: 906


Francis Paul Logan
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016
Name: Francis Paul Logan
Age: 78
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1913
Death Date: abt 1991
Burial Date: 21 May 1991
Burial Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Cemetery Section: Church of England


Lucy Logan
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lucy Logan
Death Age: 70
Birth Date: 11 Feb 1918
Registration Date: Feb 1988
Registration District: Manchester
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 38
Page: 1124

Lucy Logan
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016
Name: Lucy Logan
Age: 70
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1918
Death Date: abt 1988
Burial Date: 22 Feb 1988
Burial Place: Manchester, Greater Manchester, England
Cemetery: Southern Cemetery
Cemetery Section: L
Grave Number: 2061


The closed record in 1939 might be a possible daughter Christina, born 1937.

Another possible daughter, Edith Y, was born in 1940-41 (reg Jan qr 1941).
I can't see any later definite sign of either child.

The transcript names all the people in the household with their ages, occupations and birthplaces

And she must have the birth cert - how else would she know that the names of the parents were ‘wrong’? ;-) ;-)

Pam may only have paid for the transcript and therefore may not feel able to fulfill your request. She won’t know where Francis was born until the certificate actually arrived.

It would be helpful if you posted the full details of the 1921 for our info

As Peter was in Liverpool Workhouse in 1912, 1913, 1914 and 1917, and his ‘nearest relative’ was his grandmother, Maguire, it’s perhaps not surprising that his parents (if it WAS the same couple) lied on the other child’s birth registration. What was the address at which Francis was born?

Bear in mind that the relationship on a census is only to the head of the household

The boy Francis on 1921 census is recorded as being age 10 (if I have the right one) but the birth registered in Blackburn was OND 1912, which would make him 8

Have you pinpointed the man’s death?

I have found out the Francis Logan born in Blackburn is indeed recorded on the 1921 census as living with my father Peter Logan and parents John and Mary Catherine Logan listed as son
I wonder why they gave false forenames on his birth certificate!
I’m eagerly awaiting the arrival of the certificate that I ordered yesterday.
Thank you all so much
Kind regards
Pam

Could anyone add any more information.
l am desperate to find out about this elusive uncle Frank who l know existed as my brother remembers him visiting us in Pomona St. Liverpool in the late 1940s and early 1950s when we moved.
Any links would be most gratefully received
Pam

l checked. Chris hasn't got the same Peter
Pam

Hi West Country Lass
Thank you for replying l hadn't seen Chris as having a Peter 1910 l will check it out

Hi Langdon Lass
Yes Michael was my dads younger brother there was also a sister Mary Frances who died young too
That is my grandparents marriage l have their cert and dad and Mary Fs certs too
Francis Joseph 1908 looks a high candidate though l will check out both
l hadn't seen either of those. l suppose it's a question of resting the old eyes and then going back to look.

High Catherine
The Francis born blackburn has the same mothers maiden name but their forenames are different to my g/parents

Thanks so much for your help all of you l really appreciate it.
Kind Regards
Pam

For reference - John Logans marriage

Marriages Dec 1901
LOGAN John W. Derby 8b 646
Maguire Mary Catherine W. Derby 8b 646

Could either of these be Frank -

Births Sep 1902
Logan Francis Joseph W. Derby 8b 584

Births Sep 1906
Logan Francis Joseph Liverpool 8b 124

Could this be a sibling?

Births Mar 1916
Logan Michael mothers maiden name Maguire Liverpool 8b 85

Edited -

this looks like Michael's death.

Deaths Jun 1917
Logan Michael 1 Liverpool 8b 68