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Hello again, switching timezones. ;)

The "pensioner" probably meant he was a Chelsea Pensioner -- pensioned from the army -- if he was the one I was looking at in 1861, Sgt. James Millett, wife Catherine. You didn't say whether this was the one you were thinking of, or you'd seen him before.

I wonder whether he might be the same one as this one in 1871:

Name: James Millett
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Master At Arms (Master)
Gender: Male
Where born: Joherton, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Portland
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: Master at Arms
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Weymouth
Sub-registration district: Isle of Portland
ED, institution, or vessel: Achilles
Household schedule number: 1

On a vessel rather than in the arm, but details match. Well, except for the place of birth, which could have been an assumption if he had "come from" Hampshire at the time. I can't read that "Joherton" place name at all, except that it looks more like it starts with a D to me.

-- Oh, no, not him; I see him in several other censuses now, born in Soberton. Interesting, though; that one seems to have been enumerated twice in 1871; once on the vessel, once with his wife in Hampshire.

Now, I'd been trying out the theory that James died and Mary Jane remarried, and their children appear in censuses under their step-father's surname. Very common. Couldn't find any who looked like them, though. Seems more likely they headed to Ireland? What with the newly discovered child born there in 1879 and all.

I'm confused here:

"I have also, just to add confusion to my already muddled brain, added a thread called 'Pseudonyms' as there again pops up his son, John Bernard Millett(1875) with his name crossed through and 'Alexander Fitzsimmons'!!"

Where is "there again"?

Pseudonyms I'm used to. Filter the TTF board by surname "Monck" and you'll see bits of the tale of my gr-grfather, whose pseudonym is all we ever knew: my mother's birth surname. I only discovered it was a pseudonym in the last 3 years. Just this past week I've been in touch with a son of my mum's cousin, who knows bits and pieces of things that fit perfectly with what I've found; gotta update that thread. I'll see whether I can find the thread you mention and take a look.

Meanwhile, what more can you do? Find someone who knows about Irish records! ;) I'm completely useless on that front.

Hi to Kathryn and of course Janice who has joined the optimistic throng!

Actually the occupation on James Milletts marriage cert surprised me because he was only 36 years of age when marrying his 23 year old Mary Jane Owen. wife to be. It said Status: Widower, and Occupation: Pensioner

Now I know money is only small amount so by 1875 when his first son to his new wife was born called John Bernard Millett (1875), he is then an 'Attendant at Wiltshire County Asylum, Devizes' so in one year he has jumped into a new job.

I have had a thread on before about the Asylum post and I had misread the marriage cert as 'Mills County Asylum when members suggested it could read Wilts County Asylum.

So James Millett (1836) was working there. No longer a Pensioner.

Found another child to James and Mary Jane called

Agnes Jane Millett born 09 Jan 1879, Dunlo, Galway, Ireland

Parents: James Millett and Mary Jane Owen Millett Batch No: C005622

Only just discovered this! and again, cant find on the usual census for 1881 or 1891 or 1900? so must had shot off abroad again, and come back to England?

All in all what do you suggest I do for the best regarding finding further info. I have looked at the 1881 Asylum details on the census and cant see James there. I have also, just to add confusion to my already muddled brain, added a thread called 'Pseudonyms' as there again pops up his son, John Bernard Millett(1875) with his name crossed through and 'Alexander Fitzsimmons'!! so now you wonder why people get lost in the pages of time!

Thank you both for looking for the name and your efforts. I have no gifts to bestow on you, but real thanks and would love to reciprocate the task for you when I become more educated in this Genes Reunited site! Regina

Do you have an occupation for James from the 1874 marriage cert?

I see on Army papers there isn't any mention of John Bernard 1900 but
twins 26th oct 1901
and 4 others

As you have a child born in Chatham Kent .Parish registers are on line if he was baptised there. Maybe at StMarys?(parish in 1901)
http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/
you cannot serch by name though only by Church

Can't tear myself away ...

When you think Ireland, are you thinking this guy?

1861:


Name: James Millett
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Soldier
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Name: Catherine Millett
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
-- nonsense -- it says "wife of Sergeant Millett"
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Aldershot
Ecclesiastical parish: Winchester
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Farnham
Sub-registration district: Frimley
ED, institution, or vessel: Her Majestys 25th Regiment, the Kings own Borderers

I go, I go ...

Actually, I was kidding, just based on geography rather than name -- it's the church in Mere I share with that George Edward Millett.

But y'know, my Mere people were Barnard, sometimes misspelled Bernard in eary records (and some Barnards from other parts of Wiltshire are Bernards now, I have found).

That "Bernard" making its way down your generations -- well, you never do know.

Now I really am going home for dinner ... will we be having have the chicken saag on brown rice that I thawed ... or, since it's Friday, Miss Vicky's potato chips with dill cream cheese dip. Hmm. Oh, well maybe a little of both.

Hi Kathryn,

His father was james Millett and his mother Mary Jane Owen.

They married in 1874 at The Church of St John The Evangelist, Bath according to the rites of the Roman Catholics...thats what it said on the cert.

Found out Mary jane Owen was born in 1851 Devizes and thought well so was James then! anyway when the cert arrived found she was 23 years and he was 38 and a widower.! My goodness you dont think we are connected do you anyway, because George Edward could have been his brother?

Just been looking for Mary Ellen Millett but again, dead (sorry the pun) end!

So in all, John Bernard Millett (1900) had twin brothers (1901) had a father called John Bernard (1875) and a mother called Barbara Connolly (?)

John Bernard (1875) had a father called James (1836) who had been married earlier and was a widower when he married in 1874.

James Bernard had a father called John (?) but dont know where he was born nor where James (1836) was born.

Noticed all the children have dissolved into the census and cant be found as an army life took them abroad.

A marriage in Ireland at a Catholice church and therefore wonder if James (1836) was born there. I am optimistic, mainly because I think I will find him one day being born at......but would love to think I have a distant relation in Canada!!

Thanks for your support and will chat or at least let you know Kathryn how far I get with the hunting....nite nite! Regina

btw -- if this should turn out to be his parents' marriage (Mere isn't that far off):

Name: George Edward Millett
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Mere
County: Dorset, Somerset, Wiltshire
Volume: 5a
Page: 439

then it was in the same church where my grx4 grandparents were married in 1781. ;)

Looked for Millett events in Wiltshire at
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl
and that was the only one. If it turned out to be your people, you'd be saved the cost of the certificate: the record at FreeREG has the fathers' and witnesses names.

You never know, we could be cousins!

I'm having no more luck! Looking for either John/Bernard (1875) or Mary/Ellen (1876) (in case of going by middle names) in 1881 or 1891. Or a marriage for the sister.

Do you have the parents' names from his birth cert? No marriage for them?

Sad story about John. Yes, sometimes you get the impression (especially if you hang arond chat/general here) that youth crime was invented last year.

I'd be happy to take a bit more of a poke at it on the weekend. Suppertime here now!

Well now your'e entering the twilight zone with this family!!....his father was married in Galway, at the Catholic Church Galway, but it doesnt say which church....guess where I found this out?

On the Army papers on Ancestry.co.uk and it confirmed my workings out for his date of birth etc. Ordered the fathers birth cert and then found out the grandfathers christian name...then ordered the grandfathers marriage cert - so although I sound vague, I have slogged and tried and tried to find John Bernard milletts (1875) roots.....nothing.

I now have him blowing in the wind on a branch and a load of Blarney that will be for a while to contend with as his father was deceased at the time of his wedding.

The Devizes was where John Bernard (1875) was born and then off he shoots to Portsmouth and who knows where after that. One thing Kathryn I do know. If I had not gone on this site and asked for help, I would not be any the wiser. It has been through help of members painstakingly searching things for me that has made me carry on!

John Bernard (1875) met an untimely death being a Commissionaire in England in his later years. He told some youths to move on outside his building he was guarding, and they all set on him - bit like today isnt it with gangs, but he had lived a full life and had all his wonderful children to live and tell his story I guess. Bye for now, Regina

Only one other Devizes Millett birth:

Name: Mary Ellen Millett
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Devizes
County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a
Page: 92

Gotta be a sister.

So this would have to be father John's birth:

Name: John Bernard Millett
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Devizes
County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a
Page: 93

This is who you're looking for?

Watch out, I'll moan back ... about Moncks ...

I just had a check for the marriage -- I assume they married in Ireland? Not that you'd know. ;)

Don't seem to be in the GRO, anyhow.

Obviously you have them in the 1901, but just for passersby:

Name: John Millett
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Barbara
Gender: Male
Where born: Devizes
Occupation: Soldier, Infantry

Name: Barbara Millett
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Name: Bernard Millett
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Barbara
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: Chatham St Mary
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham
ED, institution, or vessel: Chatham Barracks
Household schedule number: 1

Barbara Millett 26
Bernard Millett 1
John Millett 26

Yes Katherine, see what you mean.

They were born in October and I will send for their birth certs.

Never had children of my own so never realised the gestation period ...ignorance that! Been searching for their dad and have his name on the Millett search board, well did have, think wiped off all the details with misery one night, as no headway was being made, and realise now I lack patience...want everything yesterday! Anyway been searching for the father's death cert and the mothers all to no avail, so realise have too many irons in the fire and will concentrate on just the twins now and John Bernard born in 1900.

Thanks Kathryn for answering my request. Nice to chat to someone and moan at them! Regards, Regina

Bad luck, but it's highly unlikely the birth certs would say anything about the mother other than her name and birth surname, I think.

edit -- oops, and her father's name, and hopefully occupation, of course, which *is* one more half-step.
edit again -- duh, don't second-guess yrself; that's marriage certificates say that.

You'll be able to match up the kids to the parents (or not ...), but that's about as far as it will go. But it's a step on the way!

Are these the twins?

(I don't know nuttin about military births, but if they were born in Portsmouth, wouldn't they be in the GRO? For that, FreeBMD is free!)

Name: James Millett
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: >>> Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Portsmouth (1900 Onw)
County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 483

Name: Patrick Millett
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: >>> Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Portsmouth (1900 Onw)
County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 483

If so, they theoretically could be even more than two years younger -- if the births were Nov 1899 and Dec 1901, say.

But it still wouldn't be hugely unusual for children to be born to the same parents a year apart.

I see what you mean!

Was just panicking in case I had got the wrong family after all and put poor John Bernard down as their brother.

The bit about him being born as early as 1899 never crossed my mind - thanks!
Will get the birth cert for him.

His father has been hard to access as he was in the army and in Portsmouth, then Curragh Co. Kildare, then Karachi India.

His mother was born in Ireland and although I will get the cert for the twins there will not be a mention of their mothers d.o.b. only perhaps where she was born? Anyway, Thank you for your reply! Regina

Not catching your drift.

Human gestation is 9 months. Why could one child not be born in one year, and another child (or twins) be born the next?

In this particular case:

Name: John Bernard Millett
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Medway (1837-1941)
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 656

-- he could actually have been born as early as November 1899, and the birth registered the following January. Have you got the birth certificate?

That's about the only way you'll know whether the various children have the same parents: birth cerrificates.

If the twins were born in latish 1901, their births would actually have been closer to two years apart than one.

Any idea on how to trace twins born 1901 in Portsmouth?

Reason I ask is their entries are on the ARMY BIRTHS, BAPTISMS AND MARRIAGES page on 'findymypast.com under the surname MILLETT

If they were born in 1901 how could their older brother John Bernard (1900 Chatham, Kent) be born a year before? surely one cant have a baby in 1900 and twins in 1901...does it mean they may not be
connected to the same 'MILLETT'? and my search has been in vain? please advise...stuck! Thanks, Regina