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Hi Rose,

If our theories are right, when the marriage cert arrives the name of Frances Amelias father will be Edwin, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

If this is the case Frances Hopkinson would have been Jessie Laykinschildren's great grandmother not grandmother.

If you go back to the postings on page 3 almost at the end of the family that Margaret found with a Fanny L Lakins in 1891 and 1901,the same family in 1881 had Fanny Eaton as a visitor.

This Fanny Eaton was married to Edwin Eaton and had children called Fanny, Herbert and Teresa.

Can you follow this, don't know if I'm explaining very well.

Christine

Hi All
I have only just put grandaughter to bed and got on line, my gosh you have been busy, i have not posted today because the cert didn't arrive this morning. If there is anything i can help you with please let me know. Hope it comes on Monday, You have lost me on this i'am afraid.

Regards Rose x

I'm with you, Christine, it's driving me mad, too!
I keep walking away from it then coming back to try another angle.
I'm suspecting there might br something wrong right from square one, The business of Frances Amelia vs Frances Lillian.
Then again how can we find Fanny Violet when we don't know what name she was registered under. As Angela says the Lakins could have given her a new forename when they gave her their surname.
It's a real puzzler.
Margaret

It's a mystery isn't it as most of the things fit now.

It's driving me mad this family.

Christine

Hi Christine

But everything else fits - p'raps she didn't like the middle name Lilian?

The names Edwin, Frances & Theresa fit with what was posted originally.

The census records that have been found fit.

I wonder if Fanny Violet was originally registered in a different first name & the Lakins changed it?

Angela

Just remembered that the Frances married to Job died in 1935, she was 62 according to the death reg but another problem with this theory aswell as the age is that she was Frances Amelia and the daughter of Edwin and Fanny E Eaton was Lilian.

Christine

That's just where it got me Margaret, absolutely nowhere.
I also traced John Lakins back all the way to 1841 too.

I can't find the Eaton family in 1901 though, they must be somewhere.

I also thought like you Angela that Fanny Violet may be the illegitimate daughter of Fanny L Eaton born but she would have been very young.

We need Rose now and the marriage cert to see how old the Frances was that married Job Hopkinson.

Christine

What fantastic detective work on this thread! Well done Christine & Margaret!

My two penn'orth, Fanny Violet 'Lakin' was the illegitimate daughter of Frances Eaton (dau 0f Edwin & Fanny E). She was adopted by John Lakin & his wife Harriet E (nee Hope) & took on their surname.

Now, where's her birth reg?.........

Angela

1851 census
39 Court, 1 House, Livery St., Birmingham, Warwickshire
Elizabeth Handcocks, head, widow, 70, pauper formerly laundress
Francis Hope, son-in-law, 34, german silver spoon maker
Matilda Hope, dau, 38, metal button piercer
Harriet Hope, grandau, 5, scholar
Elizabeth born Wolverhampton, Staffs, others born Birmingham.

Well, this was an excercise in futility. It hasn't led me anywhere. We know that Matilda Handcocks married Francis Hope and they had a daughter Harriet who married John Lakins. In 1891 John & Harriet Lakins had an adopted daughter Violet Lakins who was later Fanny V. Lakins.They had visitors in the household in 1881, Fanny Eaton and daughter Jessie.

1861 census
188 Gt. Hampton Row, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Francis Hope, head, 44, german silver spoon maker
Matilda, wife, 50, gilt toy (something?)
Harriet, dau, 16, paper box maker
Joseph, boarder, 46, porter
All born Birmingham

1871 census
1 Drayton Terrace, Aston, Birmingham, Warwickshire
John Lakins, head, 30, grocer's assistant
Harriet E., wife, 25
Francis Hope, wife's father, 52, german silver spoon maker
Louisa Farnall, servant, 16
John born Aston, others, Birmingham.

I'm getting a bit bogged down with them, have found a marriage of Edwin Eaton to Frances but that doesn't give me any clues at the moment.

Marriages Mar 1868 (>99%)

<<<Eaton Edwin King's Norton 6c 466
Johnston Jonathan Jenkins King's N 6c 466
<<<Sanders Fanny Eliza King's Norton 6c 466
Steele Ellen Maria King's N 6c 466

You had the correct family back on page 1 on the 1891 census Margaret.

I'm going to leave it for a while too.

Christine

Oh, we're on a roll now, Christine!
I really must leave it for a while now. It's almost 11 in the morning and I'm still sitting here in my pj's. One good thing about a snowstorm, there's no chance of anyone dropping in!
Margaret

Now to find out whose daughter Fanny Violet was and what Frances Eaton's maiden mame was.

Christine

Hi Margaret,
That is certainly more likely than the one I found as Fanny Violet's occupation was a milliner when Jessie was born in 1907 according to Rose, and look at the 1881 census for them

1881 England Census
about Francis Hope
Name: Francis Hope
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Father in Law
Gender: Male
Where born: Aston, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Kings Norton
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street address: Miliners Shop 26 Highgate Lane
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Spoon & Fork Maker

Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 21b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Fanny Eaton 34 married visitor born Warwickshire, Aston
Jessie Eaton 2 born Bradfield, Yorks
Louisa Farnell 24
Francis Hope 62
Harriet E. Larkins 35
John Larkins 40


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2948; Folio: 115; Page: 20; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341706.

Source Information:
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2948; Folio: 115; Page: 20; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341706.

At last the connection to Frances Eaton

Christine

Hi again, I'm stuck in the worst snowstorm of the winter with nothing better to do than genealogical research.
Now, I'm going to throw a monkeywrench into the works. (Sorry you folks call it a spanner)
After agreeing with Christine that she had the right Violet/Violetta, I've come across this one, She's Fanny V. in 1901 and Violet in 1891. And to make things even more complicated, she's listed as adopted daughter in 1891. What do you think?

1901 census
26 Highgate Rd., Balsal Heath, South Birmingham, Warwickshire
John Lakins, head, 60, clerk, commercial
Harriet E., wife, 55, milliner
*Fanny V., dau, 17, milliner
Louise Farnell, servant, 44, housekeeper
All born Birmingham.

1891 census
26 Highgate Rd., Kings Norton, Sth Birmingham, Warwickshire
John Lakins, head, 50, clerk
Harriet, wife, 45, milliner
Francis Hope, father-in-law, widower, 75
*Violet Lakins, adopted daughter, 8, scholar
Louisa Farnell, boarder, 32
All born Birmingham except Violet Born Yorkshire!

Hi Christine
Just a thought my uncle "said" one of the reasons he believed John was the father is that Frances and John worked together. I don't know where he got this info from, but what if , Villetta was niece to John they both came from Shepshed. There is a possible connection and he got Frances to take the baby ( Jessie ). My mind i guess is working overtime, what do you think ?


Regards Rose x

You may find more when the 1911 census is released but on the other hand possibly not.

Christine

Hi Christine & Margaret

No Fanny in the village at this time it was mainly men that were on elect rolls, as they were the head of household. I do believe from what i could make out the only women listed where property owners. The only Lakin registered was a Thomas Jnr Lakin on the common, no sign of a John Lakin on the common. I will have to get his death cert to find out where he was living, if not in Crich he was still somewhere in the area as Belper covers surrounding areas. I think there are many questions we will never find the answers to. I wonder if she just added the name John on her wedding cert as to say she had a father when she got married. Hopefully i will receive Frances's and Job's marriage cert in the morning, as i ordered from same office their marriage was registered.

Regards Rose x


Thankyou for your time on this .

Hi again, Rose.
I believe that the death certificate would give you the address of where the death occurred but I stand to be corrected.
I think that the Violetta Lakin that Christine found could very well be the mother of your Jessie but how on earth did Jessie become the daughter of Job Nightingale Hopkinson and Frances Eaton? And why did the grandchildren call Frances "grandma" and Job "uncle"?