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If Charles was "full age" in 1872 he would have to be over 21. The later census found suggests he wasnt.

Are you sure that is him.?
Do you have him on later census?
Do you have any childrens names?

Can't remember their names as I have kept the certificate in a file, but I remember that their names did not match any in my family tree at the moment, and 1 of the witnesses made their mark, whilst 1 was able to write their name.

Rachel

Both Matilda and Charles were "full age" - Matilda was born 1852, so she would have been 21 in March 1872. It is possible that Charles was 21 before the 27.10.1872.

I have Matilda and Charles on the 1881, 1891 & 1901 census' - their children's names being: Mary Ellen, Thomas Henry, Sarah, Matilda, Albert, Charles & Gladys.

Rachel

1861 mother Ellen??
Name: Charles Johnson
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Peter
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Johnson 5
Ellen Johnson 34
George Johnson 7
Peter Johnson 33
William Johnson 5 Mo


edit
No he is with mother in 1891

Janice - thanks for looking - I really thought you had found them then. I'm tired and calling it a night. Will look again tomorrow.

Thank you all again.

Regards

Rachel

Where was Charles born on the 1891,1901, census.?

Has anyone found Charles and family in 1891,1901?

Ivy,

But there could have been due to bad writting if something wasnt quite understood by a clerk and he put down what they thought was right,,,,,?

and writting was by the quill then,,,,,,

as I have birth cert and marriage cert 1918&1920 and a mistake has been made in the chirstian name from Register Office to entry into the GRO register,,,,,,

Looking at birth index Prescot is the registration district for St Helens
between 1853-1857 i can only find this one
Charles Johnson
Prescot
vol.8b
page 443
Mar quarter 1854

Marriages Sep 1856 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FLYNN David Prescot 8b 850
Johnson Ellen Prescot 8b 850



1861

Name: Charles Flin
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 217
Household Members: Name Age
*******Charles Flin 7
David Flin 23
Ellen Flin 30 St Helens, Lancashire
Mary E Flin 4
Sarah Flin 2
Joseph Lamb 43
Thomas Peursall 38





1871
Name: Charles Flynn
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Windle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 304
Household Members: Name Age
********Charles Flynn 17
David Flynn 34
David Flynn 9
Ellen Flynn 40
John Flynn 5
Mary Ellen Flynn 14
Sarah Flynn 12



what about this his mother married ??/



June x

Janice.
Charles was married 1872 "full age".
The 1854 birth makes him only 18.

Of course he could have lied or his "father" gave his permission. In which case he would have given his correct age .

I would like someone to find Charles after he is married in 1891,1901 with the children mentioned because Im having trouble locating them

1861 ?
Name: Charles Johnson
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Eccleston, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Sutton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Johnson 56
Charles Johnson 14
Charles Johnson 1
Edward Johnson 21
Ellen Johnson 49
John Johnson 23
Martha Runington 72

1891

Name: Charles Johnson
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Widnes
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Widnes
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Farnworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Johnson 2
Charles Johnson 36
Charles Johnson 5
Mary E Johnson 14
Matilda Johnson 35
Matilda Johnson 7
Sarah Johnson 10
Thomas H Johnson 17





1901

Name: Charles Johnson
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: North Shore St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 237
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Johnson 13
Charles Johnson 48
Charles Johnson 15
Gladys J Johnson 6
Matilda Johnson 45
Arthur Ravenscroft 1
John Ravenscroft 26
Sarah Ravenscroft 20




June x

Charles Flynn disappears after 1871
and Charles Johnson appears 1881/1891/1901

June x

census year birth are close to birth index for Prescot?

mother in 1851

Name: Ellen Johnson
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Windle, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Windle
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 4g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 155
Household Members: Name Age
Margret Anders 20
David Gamlle 28
Elizabeth Gamlle 25
James Crstophary Gamlle 3
Jane Gamlle 1
Ellen Johnson 20
Jannet Moffcott 45
William Sella 21



June x

June.
Your findings look very likely.
Charles mother Ellen Johnson married so Charles name was Flynn in 1871.

Charles then marries with his real name Johnson.
The occupation on the 1871 census is also correct because on Charles marriage cert he is a labourer.

Well done

Ah you stars

I turned in yesterday about the same time as Rachel.

Kay, I agree that if an error started in the marriage register, checking back to that source will not add anything.

Rachel, hang onto that marriage certificate - it looks fairly unique in naming the mother!

- and do see what that birth certificate says - we're expecting Charles son of Ellen Johnson. I wonder whether it was available to the registrar when he recorded the marriage?

I have just looked at all the replies - thank you all very much for all the research you have done - I am amazed! It will take me a while to plough through the information, but I will certainly be requesting the birth certificate.

Thank you all once again!

Regards

Rachel

Have just received the birth certificate for Charles Johnson, and its the wrong one. On the birth certificate, it has Charles' mother as being Margaret (not Ellen) and the father as William. William's occupation was a bank clerk. I know that Charles and his family worked in the coal mining trade.

I have had a look back through the census' which are shown on this thread; and see that there is one which has an approximate year of birth as being 1847 but am not sure. Any suggestions please?

Hi Rachel,

If Charles was born in the Prescot district, and if his birth was registered, then given that he is a little vague about age, it is worth considering how the birth registrations tie up to the census info.

Between 1840 and 1860 there were 6 registrations of Charles Johnson in Prescot:
Dec 41
Mar 47 (prob to match the one you mention as recorded on 1861 census)
Jun 52
Mar 54
Mar 58 and
Sep 59.

- looking back, you now have the certificate for the Mar 54 birth?

Matilda consistently asserted through 1881 to 1901 that she was 25/35/45, i.e. born in 1856. However, she would therefore have been 16 when she married in 1872, and I think you said you had found that she was born in 1852.

Charles believed he was 25/36/48 on the same census returns - he does seem to think he is a bit older than Matilda.

The 1852 and 1847 birth registrations therefore look like the first ones to consider and to match up.

[Edit - NB there is either one or two deaths in Jun 1852 recorded in the Prescot district - but no age in the index - the 1852 birth may have died young]