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Thanks Ivy. Possibly my Great Aunt Florence knew Miss Hawthorne when they were very young girls in the Army Barracks. My Nan and her sisters were all born in the Barracks at Aldershot. I dont think those Census will ever be found as I cant remember the year.? Thinking now it must just have been a name coincidence for the three ladies in question. Kind of eerie.

Marionx

Hi Marion,

Ada was quite a rare name before about 1890. I've had a look further back, and perhaps the most likely one, given the Woolwich connection, is this one?

Name: Ada Hawthorn
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Gender: Female
Where born: Plumstead, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Charlton Next Woolwich
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: "Huts Camp Ryl Horse Infirmary" Woolwich Common

Occupation: Daur Of Sergeant (Scholar)

Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Charlton
ED, institution, or vessel: Huts Camp

Household Members:
Name Age
Blanche Lilian Chanon 7
Charles Dale 21
Jane M. Dean 60
Martha Dean 28
Danie Florence Dwyer 9
Edward Charles Dwyer 5
John Cornelius Dwyer 37
Kate Margurite Dwyer 2
Margaret Dwyer 32
Winifred Lilian Mary Dwyer
Bertram W. Edmonds 11
Elizabeth Edmonds 11
Gertrude W. Edmonds 8
Henry Josep Edmonds 10
James Edmonds 33
Sophia Matilda Edmonds 31
Ada Hawthorn 5
Albert Hawthorn 3
Arthur Hawthorn 2
George Hawthorn 7
Henry Hawthorn 35
Henry Hawthorn 11
Jane Hawthorn 28
Ruth Hawthorn 6
Walter Hawthorn 9
George Jamieson 17
Ellen Kate Marchant 20
William Morrisey 42
Jane Mary Smith 27

Sylvia and Ivy just wanted to let you both know that I have employed the services of the Greenwich Archives to help me with my Great Great Grandmother Harriett Ackley. This place does research for Marriages and Baptisms for the area of Southwark and in particular St Mary Magdeline Church where most of my Ancestors were either married or Baptised. I have had no success with the Census so lets hope Greenwich Archives can come up with something. Just wanted to let you both know as you both helped with this one.
Marionx

ps Sylvia this is the Harriett staying with the Boughtons and the mystery solved about the name for Catherine Hershey being Henley

Hi Sylvia,
I dont know when Miss Hawthorn was born but she always seemed old to me. My Great Aunt Florence was born in the 1880s. My Nan and her sisters were all born in Woolwich (Aldershot) as my Great Grandfather served in the Royal Artillery.

Marionx

Hello Ladies,
Well what can I say. I really have to put my old thinking cap on and transport myself back to my childhood at my Nans house in John Wilson Street Woolwich. I am back in my Nans hallway looking at the old gas lamps on the wall and I am feeling scared all over again. I hated that hallway but knew if I ran quickly it would take me to Miss Hawthorn. Trying to remember the stories as my Mother related to me Miss Hawthorn was just that and never married but there were stories that she had a son born out of wedlock? My Nans sister Florence and Miss Hawthorn were best friends. I dont remember my Great Aunt Florence but I do remember Miss Hawthorn. In her little room down Nans Hallway was everything she needed. Today it would be something like a bed sit. Ladies I cant really add any more than that. Too long ago. I only wish I had of taken more notice of those Census with the names on I mentioned instead of saying..Fancy That and never finding them again. I think the third name was Annie Barker or Carter? My Grandfathers brother George did marry Annie Carter but ladies these names could just be a coincidence of three other very old ladies that shared the same names.

Marionxx

The 1901 only offers two more with soundex for Hawthorn, neither married:

1) Visitor with Broths (Ava and William S)

Name: Ada E Hathorn
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Chiswick, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Charlton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: London
Country: England

2) With her family:

Name: Ada Maud Hathorne
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Islington, London, England

Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: London
Country: England

Oh! Suddenly realised Hawthorn may be her married name:

Name: Ada Hawthorn
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Joseph
Gender: Female
Where born: Camden, London, England

Civil Parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude Kensal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

This one is a visitor in the West Midlands in 1901, staying with the Box family

Name: Ada Hawthorne
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Chelsea, London, England

Civil Parish: Balsall Heath
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

This one is a bit young and may be the wrong spelling, but is in Greenwich in 1901:

Name: Ada M L Haythorne
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry A
Mother's Name: Jessie
Gender: Female
Where born: St John, London, England

Civil Parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Hi Marion,

Just thinking through the relationships (logging off shortly)

your grandfather's sisters may be Florence and Nellie as well as Minnie;

he married

your grandmother nee Whitehead

her sister (your great-aunt) Florence nee Whitehead, m Ackrill and then Slater

her friend Ada Hawthorne - so perhaps around the same age as your grandfather?

Hi Marion

what sort of birth date would we be looking at for Ada??


sylvia

Ladies I just wanted to share something with you both. It maybe nothing of importance but in any case I will continue. About two years ago while searching through the 1901 Census I came across an Ada Hawthorn,Nellie Davies or Davis and another name which I cannot remember. To this day I have never found those Census again and wished I had of taken note of them. I could even be wrong with the Census year but to explain further Ada Hawthorn was my Nans sister Florence,s friend. I remember Miss Hawthorn as she lived with my Nan in Woolwich
and I would go and spend some time with her when my Mother tokk me for a visit to Nans. Strange how on the Census the name Davis/Davies was there also . I think they were Servants? Florence my Nans sister maiden name Whitehead was also a servant. I often over the years have wondered how my Grandparents met. Perhaps Miss Hawthorn worked with my Granddads sister and Flornece being a friend of Miss Hawthorn.. Well you can guess where I am going. Just wanted to share this with you both as it could or could not be another name re Davies/Davis.

Marionxx

Ivy silly me went straight past the marriages for minnie. I would be thinking Poplar would be the right area. No Grey as a surname mentioned though so its back to the old drawing board. Maybe they were friends of my Grandparents. My Nan also had a sister called Florence but I dont think it was her. Nans sister married twice firstly to a fellow with the surname of Ackril then the second marriage was to a fellow with the surname of Slater. Oh Deary me.

Marionx

Thanks Ladies.
I have seen the Minnie Akenhead Davies on freebmd Ivy but I,m not sure? I have looked up the name Akenhead and its a surname. Perhaps it comes from the Prisk side of all this or maybe the Davies side. Do you know Ivy I was thinking about Minnie today and wondered if her first name could have been Florence? How strange was that you finding a Florence Minnie. I hope both you and Sylvia get to read this as it might help but on my Great Grandparents Marriage Cert if gives both their residences as Woodstock. I thought perhaps this might have been a Farm of some sought where they both worked but where it was located is a mystery to me. I did email a place in England called Woodstock which is a old homested but they never replied back, This homested if thats what you would call it is a kind of holiday retreat and a step back in time. Just as a point of interest the two witnesses on the Marriage Cert were the Minister and his wife. I wont add their names as I dont think its of any value. Ivy can you find Florence Minnie in the Census? I am also wondering if this was Florrie one of the witnesses on my Grandparents Marriage Cert. Sylvia bless you. You have helped me so much today. To both ladies thankyou very much.

Marionxx

A couple of possible marriages for Minnie:

Marriages Dec 1906
Davies Minnie Catherine Pancras 1b 31
GARROD Henry Edward Pancras 1b 31
Greenaway Amy Matilda Pancras 1b 31
WILLIAMS Thomas Pancras 1b 31


Marriages Sep 1898
DAVIES Minnie Poplar 1c 1050
FARRELL John Henry V Poplar 1c 1050
FARRELL John Henry Y Poplar 1c 1050
Greenaway Constance Fannie C Poplar 1c 1050
Greenaway Constance Fanny C Poplar 1c 1050
White Arthur James Poplar 1c 1050

(Free BMD transcribes entries twice, to help eliminate errors - any slight differences result in a double posting)

(There may be more - I was looking for Gr*y as an associated surname)

Apologies, not Tavistock at all, but Stoke Damerel - Free BMD says this is became first Devonport and then Plymouth, so perhaps a better fit for where they were in 1881:

Name: Florence Minnie Davis
Year of Registration: 1877
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Stoke Damerel
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 315

This is a bit late though - the Minnie Akenhead Davies in Mar 1873 is a better fit - I think you've already mentioned that one?

Hi Sylvia and Marion,

I tried following the Lydstow ref from the 1901 - this just brought up Marion's correspondence on Ancestry on this topic, where you mentioned Lydstone as an alternative transcription.

Looking Lydstone did link to surnames, which suggests there may (once?) have been a place. There is a house in Chagford with this name.

However, Genuki has lots of info about Lydford, which is a Dartmoor parish in the Tavistock registration district.

There is a Florence Minnie birth registration in Tavistock, which didn't look right until you mentioned Florence as a possibility. (NB Genuki has a transcrbed list of baptisms for Lydford covering the 1870s but there are no Davi(e)s on that list).

I'll see if I can find it again....

Hi Marion


Just returned to the computer ............... it's now 7:45 pm, so we have just finished dinner.

It was mid to late afternoon when I was helping you.



I was following the thought of mother being Mary Ann but preferring to be called Minnie.

I know Minnie can be both a name in itself, and also a shortening of another name.

Good luck with emailing the Online Parish Clerk.


sylvia

Sylvia Re Mary Ann Davis born 1875 I will email the On Line Parish Clerk again on this one. I still think her name was Minnie though. Maybe I want it to be so it makes things easier. What a JOKE.
Back Later as I,m hungry. Lunch time.
Marionx

Could be Sylvia for Minnie Christened Mary Ann? Thats a thought and a half. I have never seen so much mismatched information on any Census such as birth places for this one. Mary Ann Davies Nee Prisk was born in St Hilary Cornwall. I got some good results with that one from the Cornwall On Line Parish Clerk. Very nice fellow and was a tremendous help. I also believe the area for Davies was Exeter but gee whiz Sylvia its so hard as there are so many Davies/Davis from that way but not much info available. By the 1901 Census Minnie has gone from the household. No doubt married and I would think around that area. My Grandparents were married in Poplar (Tower Hamlets) and George Davies was married in Canning Town to Annie Carter. I have both marriage Certs Slyvia thankyou. I dont know somehow I always thought there was a Florence for this family but maybe I,m wrong. I must add that on my Grandparents Marriage Cert the two wtinesses are J.Grey and Florrie Gray. Maybe nothing and just two friends who agreed to be witnesses. Sylvia how does the time go for you in Canada? Its lunch time here 12.19 so whats your time and are you up late helping me?
Marionx