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I have just received my great x 2 grandparents marriage certificate after a 3 week wait.

There names where Emmanuel Cliffe and Isabella Gray.

I have the info on Emmanuel its all listed on a thread called Census Queries.I did'nt know whether to post on the old thread or start a new one.

What I was wondering is when Isabella and her family came from Scotland.On the census records with Emmanuel it states she was born in Scotland.

Her father was a John Gray and it says on the cert that he was a shoemaker.

Isabellas address on the cert says Madryn Street Liverpool.
I've checked it out on google maps and its still there although all the houses seem to be boarded up.

Thanks for all your previous help

Julie

For info

1891

Name: Isabella Cliffe
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Emmanuel
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cleopas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Emmanuel Cliffe 34
Isabella Cliffe 35
Thomas Cliffe 13
John Cliffe 10
Mary E Cliffe 8
Emmanuel Cliffe 6
Saraem Cliffe 4
Euphemia G Cliffe 1

Sorry Flick,

Emmanuel and Isabella married in 1877 jun qtr,in the parish of St Michaels Liverpool.Both where aged 21 at the time of the marriage.

His parents where Thomas Cliffe and Mary Onions,both born in Cheshire.
I have the info on these.

The only info I have on Isabella is what has been posted

Thanks

Julie

Thanks K

Its mainly Isabella who I am interested in and her parents,siblings etc

You have been fantastic on my other thread (Thwaites Cumbria)

Thanks again

Julie

Hi Julie! There is this one in 1871 with a father John who was a shoemaker

Name: John Gray
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Egphiman
Gender: Male
Where born: Perthshire
Registration Number: 685/5
Registration district: Newington
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 68 East Crosscauseway
Occupation: Shoemaker
ED: 54
Household schedule number: 75
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1871_165
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gray 55
Egphiman Dickie 53 wife??
John Gray 26
Isabella Gray 15
Agnes Gray 13
William Gray 7

The same family in 1861 - with the wife's name being the same as her possible grandchild

Name: John Gray
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Euphemia
Gender: Male
Where born: Tulliallan, Perthshire
Registration Number: 685/5
Registration district: Newington
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 68 East Cross Causeway
Occupation: Bootmaker
ED: 50
Household schedule number: 55
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1861_129
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gray 44
Euphemia Gray 42 b Clackmanan
James Gray 19
John Gray 16
David Gray 14
Catherine Gray 10
Isabella Gray 5
Agnes Gray 3
Thomas Clacke 18 Boarder

Could this be the John Gray, Isabella's father??

1891 England Census
about John Gray
Name: John Gray
Age: 76
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Midlothian (Edinburgh), Scotland

Civil parish: St Giles North
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: BOOTMAKER<<<<<<<

Widow


Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles, North
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Gray 76

1841 Scotland Census
about John Gray
Name: John Gray
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Midlothian, Scotland

Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: Wharton Place No 8
Occupation: Saddler <<<<<<<<<<
Parish Number: 685/2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Gray 55 1786 Has to be John's mother.
John Gray 25
Euphemia Gray 20
Grace Gray 15
Robert Stevenson 10
Ann Kinner 20

Poss Christening of John with mother Mary.

JOHN GRAY Pedigree
Male

Christening: 05 JUL 1812 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland


Parents:
Father: JOHN GRAY Family
Mother: MARY BANKS

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

Thanks K

That could certainly be them,her grandchild called Euphemia died quite young and is buried in Toxteth cemetary.

I was wondering where that name came from because it sounds so unusual.

Thanks again

Julie

Thanks Mel aswell,

A shoemaker and saddler could be interchangable couldn't they as both are working in leather?

Thanks

Julie

Yes thats what I thought Julie.

Thanks again,

My Dad will be having a look at all the info tomorrow as their his mothers grandparents.
Its amazing how quickly your tree can grow,and how quick you can find all the info.

Thanks

Julie

Oh dear here is a John with wife Euphemia and it is another 1891 census but this one is a grocer.

1891 Scotland Census
about John Gray
Name: John Gray
Age: 73
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Euphemia
Gender: Male
Where born: Currie, Edinburgh
Registration Number: 685/2
Registration district: St Andrew
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Mary
County: Midlothian
Address: 23 Union Pl
Occupation: Grocer
ED: 86
Household schedule number: 98
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1891_343
Household Members: Name Age
John Gray 73
Euphemia Gray 73
Eliza Gray 31
Cahterine Gray 29

Hi K,

I thought it wouldn't be that easy.

I might have to get Isabellas birth cert to be positive,but I'm not sure where in Scotland she was born.

Just found a possible marriage on IGI for Isabellas parents.

John Gray married a Euphemia Dickie in 1841 dec qtr
in Tulliallan Perth Scotland.

There was also a possible Christening for Euphemia in Clackmannan

28th December 1818

Thanks again Mel & K

Julie

I have just found a birth for an Isabella Gray,

Parents are John and Euphemia,right area and year Feb 1856.

Do you order certificates the same way as you do on GRO?
Are they the same price?

Thanks again for all your help

Julie

Julie, you can Scotlandspeople. I think they still charge £6 for 30 searches.

It doesn't operate in the same way as the GRO. If you get it right, it can be a lot cheaper but you do may want to practice before using up your credits. There's a certain knack of getting the most out of the system and stop you looking through pages and pages of unnecessary screens which use up your credits.

If you are lucky you can use as little as 1 credit to find the certificate and then you pay 5 credits to view the certificate you want leaving you a few credits to spare :)

It's an instant download too :) I love the site.

This is the FAQ:

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/faqs/index.aspx?42

Edit: PS civil registration for Scotland started later than England, ie 1855 so you just about scraped in but you just missed 1855 which I refer to as the bonus year because it tells you everything about the family.

If you find any deaths in Scotland, they will also give the parent's names and occupations including the mother's maiden name. This is the same for marriage certificates.

Good luck.

Thanks Secret Red,

I'll have a look into it

So if I get it right first time I'll only use 6 credits at the most?

Does it give the Fathers occupation like the English certs that I've got?

Thanks once again

Julie

Julie

When you search on Scotlandspeople you can get up to 23 search results on a page. Each page costs 1 credit to view, so don't narrow your search too much. Once you view the page with the search results that's you got access to it and you can go back time and again to view the results of your search and select which entries you wish to look at . Each entry costs 5 credits.

Scottish birth certificates give the names of both parents and the father's occupation. Statutory registration began in Scotland in 1855. birth entries after 1860 also give the date and place of the parents' marriage.

Thanks Rootgatherer,

I might try it out in the next couple of days.

Can I print off my findings?

Its just that its easier for my parents to understand it,or do I just leave it in a file.

Thanks again

Julie