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Hi there, I am a relatively new Gold member trying to put together my family tree. I've hit a wall with my great grandfather, Frederick Besant. Unfortunately I don't have a lot to go on as I don't have a date or place of birth for him. What I do know is that he definately had at least one sister who was known as Cis but I think she may have been a ciscelia? Frederick also married a woman by the surname of Clements, first name I think was Kathleen but I am unsure of spelling, who was from Rochester, Kent. Frederick and Kathleen definately had at least three children, one of whom would have been my grandfather who was also a Frederick Besant born in 1933, the other children were called Mary, born 1930 and Maureen, born 1943 (all children born in London) there may also have been a connection to another child, also called Kathleen, born,1921, (not sure where) who would have been the eldest but Frederick was not her father although I believe that he may have took her on as his own... I also know that they lived at Tavistock Road, W.11 for a period of time and then from 1943/44 - 1957 at 292 Kensal Road, W.10, London. I also know that Frederick died in 1957 at the age of approx 55 at St Charles Hospital W.10 London. I have tried searching Birth/Death/Marriage Records but am drawing a blank, I am unsure if I am doing something wrong...
Any help/information that anyone can provide will be much appreciated
I will be online for the next hour if anyone needs any further information, (although I am limited with further details) other than that I will be checking in daily.
Many Thanks,
Chevaun Besant.

? the marriage, from www.freebmd.org.uk ...... a free site!


Marriages Mar 1930 (>99%)

Besant Frederick W Clements Kensington 1a 279
Clements Kathleen Besant Kensington 1a 279




sylvia

Some of the info you can find on FreeBMD like the marriage to Clements and grandfather born in 1933

Heres a start

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Frederick W Besant
Name: Frederick W Besant
Spouse Surname: Clements
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1930
Registration district: Kensington
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 279
Find Spouse: Kathleen

??????? his birth ..... but earlier than you thought


Births Mar 1892 (>99%)

Besant Frederick William Andover 2c 209




sylvia

Name: Frederick W Besant
Death Registration Month/Year: 1957
Age at death (estimated): 55
Registration district: Kensington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 893
so born c 1902

Frederick W Besant b. 1892 in 1901?

1901 Census

Name: Frederick Besant
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Son
Father's name: William Richard Besant
Mother's name: Jane Besant
Gender: Male
Where born: Andover, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Andover
Ecclesiastical parish: Hatherden Christchurch
Town: Wildhern
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Andover
Sub-registration district: Andover

William Richard Besant 37
Jane Besant 36
Nellie Besant 12
Frederick Besant 9
Ernest Besant 5
Annie Besant 2



Note that Cis can be a nickname, with an unrelated "real" name!




sylvia

Name: Frederick T Besant
Mother's Maiden Surname: Clements
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1933
Registration district: Paddington
Registration county: Greater London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 65

only one Frederick W Besant showing on freebmd .. the one born i 1892

Births Mar 1892 (>99%)

Besant Frederick William Andover 2c 209


Births Sep 1895 (>99%)

Besant Frederick Walsall 6b 771


Births Dec 1895 (>99%)

Besant Frederick Ernest Whitchurch, H. 2c 210


Births Jun 1900 (>99%)

BESANT Frederick George Marlbro 5a 97



and far too late!!

Births Mar 1917 (>99%)

Besant Frederick A Newark W.Ham 4a 642




He could have lied about his age of course


age and birth date on a death certificate are only what is known to the informant




sylvia

no 1921 birth but this is a poss as born in the same area they married
Name: Kathleen Clements
Mother's Maiden Surname: Clements
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1925
Registration district: Kensington
Registration county: Greater London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 247

fred* besant, 1900 +/- 10 years, on the 1911


HOUSEHOLD BESANT FRED M 1909 2 Edmonton Middlesex
HOUSEHOLD BESANT FREDERICK EARNEST M 1896 15 Salisbury Wiltshire
HOUSEHOLD BESANT FREDRICK M 1892 19 Andover Hampshire





sylvia

Thanks Sylvia/Shirley and Ginny for your time and info.
It's very helpful to know that the marriage between Frederick and Kathleen was recorded. I will try the free site mentioned and see whether I can get the info up, Ican't understand though why I can't find it in the records on this site... very strange, unless I am doing something wrong! I suppose it will take some time to get used to the site. Does anyone know why some of the posts have been deleted? Went to make a cup of tea and came back and they had already been removed, didn't realise the responses would be so quick but I'm not complaining!

could have been in WW1 Royal Navy
Name: Frederick W Besant
Regiment or Corps: Royal Navy
Regimental Number: 307143
Would have been too young if born 1902 .
As he didnt marry till 1930 I bet he chopped off 10 years of his age

Edit: it been transcribed as Royal Navy however its only RN on the record and Cpl. Did they have Corporals in the RN i thought they were ratings ??

Chevaun


the records on this site are hopeless!


we've all been finding the information on www.freebmd.org.uk ..... a free site that is very easy to use.


I used ancestry.co.uk to find the record for Frederick W Besant born in 1892


and 1911census.co.uk for that information ..... ti si possible to searchf or free on that site, then buy credits to look at the transcript or census image



The posts that have been deleted were postings by people that duplicated information that had already been posted.





sylvia

Name: Kathleen Clements
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Strood (1885-1923)
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 631

so he was some 16 years older so bet he did a fiddle with his age

Kathleen would have been a little young to have a baby in 1921 .ie c 13 so the 1925 birth looks more likely making her c 17 years old

Shirley


I really think he is that one born in 1892

There is just no other record that fits.


I even looked for Male Besant ................ there was one born in 1896



..... and that he did lie about his age, both to his wife and his children!




sylvia

Shirley, the Frederick birth that yoiu have found registered in 1933, Kensington, is definately my grandfather. The Kathleen birth in 1925 is most probably the sister that I was looking for. Thank you very much.

I agree Sylvia .!

1911 census
CLEMENTS, Jesse Head Married M 39 1872 Builder Debling Kent VIEW
CLEMENTS, Elizabeth Wife Married
12 years F 39 1872 Gravesend Kent VIEW
CLEMENTS, Jesse John Son M 4 1907 Northfleet Kent VIEW
CLEMENTS, Kathleen Daughter F 2 1909 Northfleet Kent VIEW
POTTER, Anne Servant Single F 21 1890 General Servant Domestic Milton Gravesend Kent VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3838 Reference:
RG14PN3838 RG78PN146 RD45 SD1 ED5 SN104

Registration District:
Strood Sub District:
Northfleet Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Northfleet

Address:
The Gables London Road Northfleet County:
Kent

Strood is right next to Rochester. i live in the area!!

I deleted my post because it was duplicating the information found by SylviainCanada